Another child killed by a dog...

[tnorfotkcab]

Another poor child is killed by a dog.... We already know this is an XL Bully, don't even have to wait for confirmation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce35zkl9dg3o

I think she meant Labradors are the dogs with more bites reported statistically . I’m assuming they are also one of the most common breed so not particularly surprised

How embarrassing to refuse to educate yourself.

That's awful, the HA sound very slack.

My friend lives in social housing, in a block of 2-storey maisonettes. The ground floor properties (which hers is) have gardens.

Her NDN had a large XL-type dog and the fence between their gardens was only about 2' high. The dog's owner never walked it, and would go out and leave the dog shut in the garden so that it didn't crap in the flat, it would be out there for hours on end sometimes, and friend was scared to go out in her own sodding garden.

Even I found it unnerving, and I grew up with a German Shepherd and have owned dogs for more than half my life.

The owner moved out, thankfully and took the dog with him, but that probably just means it'll be living somewhere else.

The point I am trying to make is that if you were really that bothered by this, you would pursue it. How do you know that this person/dog aren't already known to the police or subject to/in breach of any relevant restrictions? You don't. The info you supply could be the tipping point for action.

@GreyfriarsJobbies This exactly 100%

So many new shipping laws were brought in after the titanic sunk
Terrorist attacks brought in new laws for air travel
Dunblane brought in gun reform
Hillsborough brought in changes at football stadiums

Tragedy brings change, as we learn more we do better

Nearly 20 people have been killed in just a few years by these dogs, of course we need to do something about it.

If you think she is being anything other than intentionally obtuse you are mistaken.

They weren't when I rang at 11pm having been kicked by a man on a bike and had someone try and snatch my phone though? Which is all that matters. When you are trying to report crime (which is what you were saying the poster should have done) it's the immediacy that matters.

I don't want to send an email, contact the council, write to my MP or do anything other than have someone respond to an ongoing crime, like being assaulted or having a dangerous dog in the park.

I'm sure you thought you were making a clever response there, but you've completely shown yourself up.

"Pocket bullies" are exactly what they sound like. Small versions of XL's. Inbred backyard bullies on a smaller scale. They have the same sort of disproportionate muscle distribution just much smaller dogs.

I accidently ended up in a park where there was some kind of official meet for these dogs and their owners. They are absolutely vile. It was frightening to be there.

@Lemonfrost How on earth would the police/council/dog warden know who I am talking about from a 10 second glance. Man in black tracksuit with giant scary dog could be so many people round here.

And no I would not be filming or taking a photo as I wouldn't want to aggravate the owner of a deadly animal.

These people are breaking the law and should be/should have been reported.

To the people noting that labs and other similar breeds have higher bite incidents - they're simply not comparable. I am a dog trainer, so spend a lot of time out and about with all different kinds of dogs, I run social walks etc and we also work with owners of aggressive dogs - so have a good cross section of experience. We absolutely do get aggressive labs, spaniels, cockapoos, shepherds, rotties etc.

The big difference is the impact of that aggression.

I had an incident recently when an aggressive lab made a beeline for a client's dog and managed to get hold of the little dog. The dog on the receiving end had some minor injuries to the face and it took me about 30 seconds to get the lab off and under control.

Cross check with similar incident - a bully type went for one of our dogs out on a walk. One of our group is a man who is over 6 foot tall, probably weighs about 15 stone, and is a very experienced dog handler. The effort it took to get the dog off was unbelievable - it actually ended up taking two people to get the dog off, one punching it so hard that they broke bones in their hand, while someone else choked it out. It was like it was made of iron.

That's the difference.

I have my own dogs, one of whom is big and powerful, but not a bull breed, and I genuinely don't think he's a risk to the public. I would hate a world where all dogs are on lead or muzzled, I love my dogs to be able to have off lead time and freedom. However, XLs are built different, and putting an XL in the hands of an inexperienced dog owner is like giving a 16 year old a Ferrari. It's asking for trouble.

But labs and spaniels have never been responsible for a fatal attack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

There are no labs on the list and only one spaniel (accidental bite during tug of war lead to an infection that was ultimately fatal).

Well, wouldn't the robbery incident you describe have merited a 999 call? And how does my disagreeing with you mean I have 'shown myself up? It's a discussion forum! Stop taking it so personally.

Hey @tnorfotkcab - looks likely that it was “pocket bully types” according to the neighbours, as they said the dogs “were not large.” So, you were half-right - still a bully, just not an XL. But that only highlights this issue more! These dogs do not NEED to be “XL” to kill a baby (neighbours are saying it was a baby girl); they have extremely powerful jaws. A non-XL bully still has a strong enough bite to crush an adult’s bones. It’s all just become so mad.
Apologies for quality of link; I know it’s a lot of ads: www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/breaking-redcar-dog-attack-victim-36993612

Ha, and you're calling other people arrogant? Wow!

Because, as already explained, it's about building a picture. Police and other authorities have numerous ways to identify people from what may seem at first glance to be vague information.

Yep, because I think she is. You don't have to agree.

The problem with making such idiotic, sweeping generalisations like this is that it detracts away from the actual issue. Why kill all bull breeds when most are not problematic? Just because you don’t like them? Just because they are powerful? Many breeds are.

Focus on the actual problem breeds - XL bullies. Supported by actual facts and statistics rather than one persons preference.

Well the crime wasn't ongoing, I'd made it home upset and the attacker had cycled off. So no, that is when are you are supposed to call 101. For someone who supposedly extolls its virtues you don't appear to know very much at all.

Your comments about what I should or shouldn't have done were absolutely targeted at me personally, so to suggest I am unreasonable for responding personally is in utter bad faith - just as many of your other posts have been too.

Can you provide this statistic?

I'm a facial surgeon and have dealt with lots of facial dog bites over the years and can't think of a single one caused by a Lab/Golden retriever. Obviously they may bite but I don't believe they cause "more damage"

I'm only seeing bites that need surgical closure, but Ive seen lots of bully bites including staffies, lots of German shepherd. A few Jack russels/daschunds/chihuahuas (although all these are small and quick). Huskies, cane corso. No labs/GR that I can recall.

The difference between a daschund bite say and a potential Xl bully bite is humungous. Bigger dogs cause more damage. Theres a massive difference between a small nip and a bite from a large/powerful breed. We aren't seeing deaths from labradors

Horribly sad news.

I wonder if getting too obsessed with breeds is a bit of a red herring? XL bullies are a relatively new "breed", and if all efforts are focused on irradicating these, surely another "breed" will simply arise to take its place? Plus it can be difficult to determine a dog's "breed" anyway - how much XL blood does a dog need to be defined as an XL itself? Etc etc.

Legislation needs to be focused on size and weight of dog, I would think, rather than the confusing issue of breed.

And yes, that would be unfair on owners of large, docile dogs ....

But better this unfairness, than a single other human being, especially a child, loses their life in this horrendous and preventable way.

Indeed. Cane Corso / CC crosses are the breed the XL lot have moved onto.

There's already some evidence that people are moving on to Malinois and Canes. I think legislation needs to be focussed on breeding, ownership and training.

Ahh. What’s a few dead kids here and there, eh?
The dogs are their owners are obviously the important ones in this situation. 🙄