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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Another child killed by a dog...

900 replies

tnorfotkcab · 09/04/2026 22:08

Another poor child is killed by a dog.... We already know this is an XL Bully, don't even have to wait for confirmation.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce35zkl9dg3o

A Google street view of Hardale Grove. It is a residential cul-de-sac with cars parked on the pavement.

Child dies in Redcar dog attack, police say

Police remain at the scene in Dormanstown, where one dog was destroyed earlier.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce35zkl9dg3o

OP posts:
Thread gallery
28
FishingInTheRiversOfLife · 12/04/2026 22:32

I wish people would stop saying that the parents in any of these attacks should have been watching their child better. Dax Borchardt was pulled out of his baby-sitters arms by two pitbulls (they belonged to her). These are powerful dogs, XLs are even worse, and in the three-week old baby's case now, they seem to be pocket bullies, even if the baby is IN YOUR ARMS, you are powerless against these bully breeds, let alone more than one of them.

As for leaving the door open, we should all be able to do that. Damn fucking dogs, lives ruined, because of dogs. I'm with Oona on this.

Cocabuta · 12/04/2026 22:36

Awful. If that’s true about the dogs entering the house via an open back door it’s just further proof of what I was saying earlier that keeping dangerous dogs on muzzles or on leashes is ineffective. They need to be destroyed because they still pose a risk for not only people in their household but also the general public if they get out.

It just takes one person to forget to close a gate or a door and the dogs are off out. I remember a case near Croydon where this millionaires vicious dog got out and attacked someone. The dog had form for escaping and biting dogs and being aggressive to other people before that as well. Ridiculous how it wasn’t already put down.

FishingInTheRiversOfLife · 12/04/2026 22:40

There is a massive XL near us, I DREAD my son walking to school and encountering it. I have not seen it without its muzzle, but that's not to say it wouldn't escape one day without it and maul someone (we live on the same road as the school). There are also two smaller bully-breeds, pitbull size, one gives me the total creeps, I am ALWAYS on the lookout for it before leaving my home or my car. The other is ancient and overweight and a bit short, I am not as scared of that one, but no doubt it could do damage if it wanted to. But the other two could kill, 100%. WHY should we live like this?! My neighbour is early 70s and also petrified of them.

Cocabuta · 12/04/2026 22:53

@FishingInTheRiversOfLife That’s horrible. I do feel for parents of young kids nowadays. Parks aren’t as safe for kids now because of out of control dogs. And now you even get some nutters bringing dangerous or “reactive” dogs to the school gates.

I live in an apartment building with far too many dogs and I am already a bit hyper vigilant after one unleashed cockapoo jumped and scratched me , but thankfully none of the dogs are bully’s.

I’d hate to see an XL in my building/ neighbourhood. That would really set me on edge.

It’s like the governments past and present have just thrown us to the dogs - excuse the unintended pun. They are not being proactive enough. It will take a politicians or journalists child being savaged before there’s an appetite for things to change.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 13/04/2026 07:15

This one was shocking. Have any unusual circumstances been mentioned?
I’ve had a lurcher like that and while I was careful about children and babies, it never occurred to me he could hurt me. A good boot and he’d have flown, they really aren’t heavy/compact.

GlovedhandsCecilia · 13/04/2026 07:19

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 13/04/2026 07:15

This one was shocking. Have any unusual circumstances been mentioned?
I’ve had a lurcher like that and while I was careful about children and babies, it never occurred to me he could hurt me. A good boot and he’d have flown, they really aren’t heavy/compact.

Some.people are wondering if she has a seizure or something that made him turn on her.

The reality is that if any medium sized dog got really angry, it would be the same. When I was a kid, the worst dog in our area was a golden labrador. He bit so many people! Kids too! Our parents used to just say to keep away from.him but he would be off lead in our street. He bit a boy's face before. He eventually died of cancer so nothing to do with his attacks.

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 13/04/2026 07:29

GlovedhandsCecilia · 13/04/2026 07:19

Some.people are wondering if she has a seizure or something that made him turn on her.

The reality is that if any medium sized dog got really angry, it would be the same. When I was a kid, the worst dog in our area was a golden labrador. He bit so many people! Kids too! Our parents used to just say to keep away from.him but he would be off lead in our street. He bit a boy's face before. He eventually died of cancer so nothing to do with his attacks.

Yes, I think if she were for some reason unable to defend herself, she’d be vulnerable. Any dog can be triggered to attack- medical conditions or something we don’t understand could cause any dog to flip. The key bit is whether you can defend yourself/get away. Generally you can. Very muscular dogs, less so. I don’t rate my chances against my neighbour’s Akita, or dogs like Alsatians, Doberman etc. but would have given myself good odds against a lurcher.

An XL Bully amused me last week, in Italy. He was quite a pleasant, relaxed seeming animal, just wanted to lie down in the sun. His size and previous experience clearly led him to think he could climb up onto the bench and everyone else would make room for him. He was right. He sniffed my arm, gave it a lick and lay down to snooze. I was moving on anyway.

OonaStubbs · 13/04/2026 07:36

It just goes to show - any dog can be a killer.

The only safe thing is for them all to be banned.

Oopsadaisy92 · 13/04/2026 07:37

ejmog · 09/04/2026 22:09

How do you.know it's a xl bully ?

I read it wasn't a proscibed breed....

GlovedhandsCecilia · 13/04/2026 07:42

PrizedPickledPopcorn · 13/04/2026 07:29

Yes, I think if she were for some reason unable to defend herself, she’d be vulnerable. Any dog can be triggered to attack- medical conditions or something we don’t understand could cause any dog to flip. The key bit is whether you can defend yourself/get away. Generally you can. Very muscular dogs, less so. I don’t rate my chances against my neighbour’s Akita, or dogs like Alsatians, Doberman etc. but would have given myself good odds against a lurcher.

An XL Bully amused me last week, in Italy. He was quite a pleasant, relaxed seeming animal, just wanted to lie down in the sun. His size and previous experience clearly led him to think he could climb up onto the bench and everyone else would make room for him. He was right. He sniffed my arm, gave it a lick and lay down to snooze. I was moving on anyway.

Yeah we don't know that she did have a seizure though. I honestly think that a medium sized dog that wants to hurt a person could. I don't think it would be an easy fight to get it off of you. Especially if you werent standing to begin with.

There have bene many reports stating that the dog slept in her bed. Personally, having rotties, allowing your dog on your bed or the sofa is no no IMO. You do not want these dogs to think they own that kind of human space. We let our dog on the sofa by explicit invite only and never on our beds. You have to keep boundaries.

GlovedhandsCecilia · 13/04/2026 07:49

OonaStubbs · 13/04/2026 07:36

It just goes to show - any dog can be a killer.

The only safe thing is for them all to be banned.

Even guide dogs?

Or you'd allow those and euthanise the puppies who didnt make the grade at around 18 months?

firstofallimadelight · 13/04/2026 08:04

The lack of legislation and monitoring of pet ownership is shocking

MandingoAteMyBaby · 13/04/2026 08:11

GlovedhandsCecilia · 13/04/2026 07:49

Even guide dogs?

Or you'd allow those and euthanise the puppies who didnt make the grade at around 18 months?

Yes; as a society we kill animals in their millions, including very young ones.

GenieGenealogy · 13/04/2026 09:19

SerendipityJane · 12/04/2026 12:28

Dogs biting humans is unacceptable. Period. Nobody disagrees with that.

That's not true. There are plenty of dog owners who will let slip that it's always the fault of the person who got bitten. Or if they are a child their parents. They aren't stupid enough to put it at the top of their post. But it slips out eventually.

Agree with this. They put the blame onto the person who got bitten - they triggered the dog, they were acting inappropriately, they didn't understand the dog's body language or warnings. All ignoring the fact that it is their job as an owner to make sure their dog does not impact on anyone ever.

Whether that means not allowing it to jump up, having perfect recall, or making sure it has no opportunity to bite in the first place.

TwoSwannits · 13/04/2026 10:20

GenieGenealogy · 13/04/2026 09:19

Agree with this. They put the blame onto the person who got bitten - they triggered the dog, they were acting inappropriately, they didn't understand the dog's body language or warnings. All ignoring the fact that it is their job as an owner to make sure their dog does not impact on anyone ever.

Whether that means not allowing it to jump up, having perfect recall, or making sure it has no opportunity to bite in the first place.

It's true though, that this is often the reason for stressed dogs biting. Too often the problem is that the owners themselves don't recognise the signs and gets bitten (or their children do) by their own dog.

Let's put known problem breeds aside for a moment, because part of the issue with them is that it seems there are frequently none of the usual warning signs and that those dogs don't especially need a classic 'trigger' to attack. Their unpredictability and tendency to become aggressive very quickly for no obvious reason is well documented. But let's consider other dogs which make good family pets are don't have a bad rep.

Of course, it's the owner's responsibility to make sure that their dog doesn't bite other people. And it's the owners responsibility to teach their dog good recall and not to jump up at people, and if they can't, then it shouldn't be allowed off leash in areas where there are people about. Absolutely no argument there.

But it also wouldn't hurt non-dog owners to educate themselves and very importantly, their children, about how to behave around dogs and what not to do, to stress or antagonise the dog. Most dogs are fairly submissive and biddable around humans, but they have their limits like all of us. Even a non-aggressive dog may nip or growl or bite if sufficiently stressed or antagonised. In most cases all the warning signs are there. Ultimately it's the responsibility of the owner to minimise the risks of that happening while out in public or if inviting people into their homes, but I do feel it's a sort of collective responsibility for us to all learn a bit of basic dog psychology. If you don't want to that's fine, but then the onus is on you to stay well clear of every dog and don't assume you can approach or pet a dog or allow your children to do so, as you feel like it. If you or your kids want approach a dog in a public place, or at a friend's house, you need to make sure you all understand what not to do, and the kids need supervising as well as the dog.

We once had a party and a few of our friends brought their primary school aged children. Despite having been raised in a household with children and lots of visiting children and never being a problem, my children were all older by then and my dogs were a bit long in the tooth and out of practice with the chaos of younger children being around. They were not enjoying this intrusion to say the least, so after a while I put them in their crates in a sitting room.

But while all the adults were in the garden the children we running all over the house, shrieking and being a bit wild. I went into the house and caught a couple of the kids with their faces pressed against the front of the dog crates, shouting and screeching at the dogs, who were looking visibly stressed and shaking.

Luckily, I am a responsible owner and a very risk averse person in general. I had crated my dogs and I regularly checked on them and the children. I told the children in no uncertain terms not to enter that room again, that they were scaring the dogs and how would they feel if they were locked in a cage and someone was screeching in their faces and they couldn't escape? Had I not crated them, had I been drunk or otherwise distracted it could have ended very badly. I don't believe my dogs would ever have seriously mauled or savaged a a child, but do I think they'd bite, or react aggressively given sufficient provocation? Absolutely. Who wouldn't? And would it have been my dogs' fault? No. Not unless you are prepared to accept that any form of self defence as a reaction to quite justified fear is always wrong, and the the 'fault' of the person or creature committing it.

It would have been my fault if a child had been bitten, for not anticipating an issue, not recognising signs of stress in the dogs and not supervising the situation well enough. That said, while I don't expect children not to screech and get over-excited when playing, I'd hope their parents might have taught them not to tease animals and annoy animals on purpose, and to be mindful of their behaviour in general. To have some empathy and some respect. They weren't toddlers, they were nine and 10 years old.

We understand that it's not a great idea to climb into the bear or lion enclosure in a zoo, but when it comes to domestic animals we have a tendency to see them as giant cuddly toys with endless patience who can be clambered on and pulled around and treated without respect, instead of creatures who, however well socialised and domesticated, will react when exposed to enough irritation or stress just as we might.

We can't realistically expect that the definition of a 'good' dog is one who has been trained to accept any amount of goading, abuse and annoyance, with people repeatedly invading their space and getting up in their grills and never react to it. That's what cuddly toys are for, not live pets.

But that's how some people seem to think a dog should be expected to behave, and if it can't then it has no place existing.

takealettermsjones · 13/04/2026 10:38

TwoSwannits · 13/04/2026 10:20

It's true though, that this is often the reason for stressed dogs biting. Too often the problem is that the owners themselves don't recognise the signs and gets bitten (or their children do) by their own dog.

Let's put known problem breeds aside for a moment, because part of the issue with them is that it seems there are frequently none of the usual warning signs and that those dogs don't especially need a classic 'trigger' to attack. Their unpredictability and tendency to become aggressive very quickly for no obvious reason is well documented. But let's consider other dogs which make good family pets are don't have a bad rep.

Of course, it's the owner's responsibility to make sure that their dog doesn't bite other people. And it's the owners responsibility to teach their dog good recall and not to jump up at people, and if they can't, then it shouldn't be allowed off leash in areas where there are people about. Absolutely no argument there.

But it also wouldn't hurt non-dog owners to educate themselves and very importantly, their children, about how to behave around dogs and what not to do, to stress or antagonise the dog. Most dogs are fairly submissive and biddable around humans, but they have their limits like all of us. Even a non-aggressive dog may nip or growl or bite if sufficiently stressed or antagonised. In most cases all the warning signs are there. Ultimately it's the responsibility of the owner to minimise the risks of that happening while out in public or if inviting people into their homes, but I do feel it's a sort of collective responsibility for us to all learn a bit of basic dog psychology. If you don't want to that's fine, but then the onus is on you to stay well clear of every dog and don't assume you can approach or pet a dog or allow your children to do so, as you feel like it. If you or your kids want approach a dog in a public place, or at a friend's house, you need to make sure you all understand what not to do, and the kids need supervising as well as the dog.

We once had a party and a few of our friends brought their primary school aged children. Despite having been raised in a household with children and lots of visiting children and never being a problem, my children were all older by then and my dogs were a bit long in the tooth and out of practice with the chaos of younger children being around. They were not enjoying this intrusion to say the least, so after a while I put them in their crates in a sitting room.

But while all the adults were in the garden the children we running all over the house, shrieking and being a bit wild. I went into the house and caught a couple of the kids with their faces pressed against the front of the dog crates, shouting and screeching at the dogs, who were looking visibly stressed and shaking.

Luckily, I am a responsible owner and a very risk averse person in general. I had crated my dogs and I regularly checked on them and the children. I told the children in no uncertain terms not to enter that room again, that they were scaring the dogs and how would they feel if they were locked in a cage and someone was screeching in their faces and they couldn't escape? Had I not crated them, had I been drunk or otherwise distracted it could have ended very badly. I don't believe my dogs would ever have seriously mauled or savaged a a child, but do I think they'd bite, or react aggressively given sufficient provocation? Absolutely. Who wouldn't? And would it have been my dogs' fault? No. Not unless you are prepared to accept that any form of self defence as a reaction to quite justified fear is always wrong, and the the 'fault' of the person or creature committing it.

It would have been my fault if a child had been bitten, for not anticipating an issue, not recognising signs of stress in the dogs and not supervising the situation well enough. That said, while I don't expect children not to screech and get over-excited when playing, I'd hope their parents might have taught them not to tease animals and annoy animals on purpose, and to be mindful of their behaviour in general. To have some empathy and some respect. They weren't toddlers, they were nine and 10 years old.

We understand that it's not a great idea to climb into the bear or lion enclosure in a zoo, but when it comes to domestic animals we have a tendency to see them as giant cuddly toys with endless patience who can be clambered on and pulled around and treated without respect, instead of creatures who, however well socialised and domesticated, will react when exposed to enough irritation or stress just as we might.

We can't realistically expect that the definition of a 'good' dog is one who has been trained to accept any amount of goading, abuse and annoyance, with people repeatedly invading their space and getting up in their grills and never react to it. That's what cuddly toys are for, not live pets.

But that's how some people seem to think a dog should be expected to behave, and if it can't then it has no place existing.

Edited

Your suggestion (that non-dog owners learn how to not antagonise dogs) is a reasonable one as long as all the dog owners play their part and are just as reasonable. I have no issue at all with teaching my children boundaries around dogs in the ways you describe (my kids know to ask the owner before approaching a dog, not to approach a dog that's eating, etc).

The problem comes when dog owners start pushing the line - and actually, who decides where the line is? So for example, I've been asked to stop my son kicking a football in a public park because it would antagonise this lady's dog. I've also been actually yelled at for eating a picnic at a picnic bench, because the dog wanted the food and wouldn't recall and it was obviously my fault!

Now I know you're not suggesting those things, but what I'm saying is that what counts as unfairly antagonising a dog can be quite subjective, and for that reason, I don't think it works as a societal strategy to keep humans safe from dogs.

TwoSwannits · 13/04/2026 10:49

takealettermsjones · 13/04/2026 10:38

Your suggestion (that non-dog owners learn how to not antagonise dogs) is a reasonable one as long as all the dog owners play their part and are just as reasonable. I have no issue at all with teaching my children boundaries around dogs in the ways you describe (my kids know to ask the owner before approaching a dog, not to approach a dog that's eating, etc).

The problem comes when dog owners start pushing the line - and actually, who decides where the line is? So for example, I've been asked to stop my son kicking a football in a public park because it would antagonise this lady's dog. I've also been actually yelled at for eating a picnic at a picnic bench, because the dog wanted the food and wouldn't recall and it was obviously my fault!

Now I know you're not suggesting those things, but what I'm saying is that what counts as unfairly antagonising a dog can be quite subjective, and for that reason, I don't think it works as a societal strategy to keep humans safe from dogs.

Well only an entitled idiot would expect that people shouldn't be able to play with a ball or eat a sandwich because it will make their dog want it. If that were me and children were playing ball, or eating food really close to us and it was a constant distraction for my dog, in an otherwise huge park with loads of space, then I'd simply move me and my dog away from them.

If they came close again, I might politely make the point that if they didn't want my dog chasing their ball then it might be a good idea to move back to where they were, especially as I'd already moved away from them once. But I do accept that ultimately their use of the space trumps my dog's.

But these things simply require people to not be selfish and entitled, to be measured, reasonable, empathetic, have a sense of civility and civic responsibility and some bloody common sense. All seem to be in short measure these days. Everyone thinks their wants and needs trump everybody else's.

BackToLurk · 13/04/2026 10:52

takealettermsjones · 13/04/2026 10:38

Your suggestion (that non-dog owners learn how to not antagonise dogs) is a reasonable one as long as all the dog owners play their part and are just as reasonable. I have no issue at all with teaching my children boundaries around dogs in the ways you describe (my kids know to ask the owner before approaching a dog, not to approach a dog that's eating, etc).

The problem comes when dog owners start pushing the line - and actually, who decides where the line is? So for example, I've been asked to stop my son kicking a football in a public park because it would antagonise this lady's dog. I've also been actually yelled at for eating a picnic at a picnic bench, because the dog wanted the food and wouldn't recall and it was obviously my fault!

Now I know you're not suggesting those things, but what I'm saying is that what counts as unfairly antagonising a dog can be quite subjective, and for that reason, I don't think it works as a societal strategy to keep humans safe from dogs.

I think we're back to basic standards of behaviour from dog owners. Personally I'm all for tighter restrictions in some places - parks, some other open spaces - to protect people (and indeed other dogs) from rude, entitled dog owners. I think most dog owners will have a whole list of terrible behaviour they witness from other dog owners that probably match what non-dog owners think is bad. (No madam, I do not care if your dog is friendly/only saying hello, wait until any type of greeting has been OKed)

takealettermsjones · 13/04/2026 11:02

BackToLurk · 13/04/2026 10:52

I think we're back to basic standards of behaviour from dog owners. Personally I'm all for tighter restrictions in some places - parks, some other open spaces - to protect people (and indeed other dogs) from rude, entitled dog owners. I think most dog owners will have a whole list of terrible behaviour they witness from other dog owners that probably match what non-dog owners think is bad. (No madam, I do not care if your dog is friendly/only saying hello, wait until any type of greeting has been OKed)

100% agree. And this is why the arguments that go "yeah, but what about all the kids who come up and hug my dog" don't really hold water when we're talking about preventing injuries and deaths. The responsibility has to lie wholly with the person who's chosen to introduce a potentially dangerous animal into that space. I can't think of an alternative that would be effective and fair.

SerendipityJane · 13/04/2026 11:11

Your suggestion (that non-dog owners learn how to not antagonise dogs) is a

Really shit one and deserves to be stopped dead. It's just a backdoor for victim blaming. (Like leaving doors open).

takealettermsjones · 13/04/2026 11:15

SerendipityJane · 13/04/2026 11:11

Your suggestion (that non-dog owners learn how to not antagonise dogs) is a

Really shit one and deserves to be stopped dead. It's just a backdoor for victim blaming. (Like leaving doors open).

To be clear, I think it's a good suggestion in the same way that I think advising women to carry an attack alarm when walking alone is a good suggestion. I don't think it removes any of the responsibility from the attacker/dog owner and I'm not victim blaming at all.

BackToLurk · 13/04/2026 11:16

takealettermsjones · 13/04/2026 11:02

100% agree. And this is why the arguments that go "yeah, but what about all the kids who come up and hug my dog" don't really hold water when we're talking about preventing injuries and deaths. The responsibility has to lie wholly with the person who's chosen to introduce a potentially dangerous animal into that space. I can't think of an alternative that would be effective and fair.

I think it's possible to believe both that it is sensible to teach your children how to behave round dogs and that I have a responsibility as a dog owner to do things that safeguard children. For example, I don't tend to walk near the local primary school at going home time, on a footpath my dog is put in a sit/stay if young children in particular are coming toward him as they are unpredictable, if children want to "say hello" to him we do it in an appropriate manner.

LordofMisrule1 · 13/04/2026 12:02

Just seen that the dogs that killed the baby in Redcar were pocket bullies. Just goes to show they don't need to be XL bullies to be incredibly dangerous.

GlovedhandsCecilia · 13/04/2026 12:11

SerendipityJane · 13/04/2026 11:11

Your suggestion (that non-dog owners learn how to not antagonise dogs) is a

Really shit one and deserves to be stopped dead. It's just a backdoor for victim blaming. (Like leaving doors open).

If I picked up a cat in the street and it scratched or bit me, should that cat be deemed dangerous?

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