Parental estrangement. What do you secretly think?

[Orphlids]

I’m interested in outsiders’ views on estrangements between parents and their adult children. If you’ve met, or were to meet someone, and then discovered they were estranged from both their adult children, what would your initial thoughts be, assuming you knew nothing more about how the estrangement came to happen?

UABU - you wouldn’t think negatively about the parent. You’d be prepared accept the adult children were perhaps unpleasant, or difficult people. You’d feel sorry for the parent.

UANBU - you’d suspect the parent’s poor behaviour was more likely to have caused the estrangements, and you might view that person with suspicion.

Which is closer to your view? I’d be interested in any thoughts, if you’d like to comment in further detail.

I keep an open mind because I know from my own family dynamic, things are rarely black and white. I have a 90 year old friend who became estranged from her adult son due to him becoming a drug addict and stealing things from her, and I have spoken to her son myself who has said himself what she said is true. I know someone els who is 60 who estranged from her adult children because they came out as gay. I didn’t pursue that friendship because I don’t want to be friends with someone who should cut their own child off for being a lesbian.

My dh is estranged from his father, fil is 70 and dh is 50 and there’s very complex and sad reasons for this, sometimes things are so complicated it’s hard to explain to strangers so I try and not make assumptions or judge.

back in the day you were more likely to just put up with your parents whether they were nice / good or not

It used to be much easier to move away and just not really keep in touch with someone without it being a particularly big deal. Phones calls were expensive, letters took time to write etc. Nowadays, you can't just drop to that level of contact without it being very obvious.

Plus, isn't it a good thing that people no longer feel that they have to put up with bad behaviour just because they are related to the person behaving badly? Back in the day, for example, we told wives they had to put up with their husbands because they were married, no matter how awful they were, but no one thinks that any more. Why are parents any different?

The innate instinct of a child is to be close to their parent. You have to question how bad a parent has to be for a child (whether young or older) to go against that.

My mother is abusive

If she was a boyfriend of mine,you'd be asking why the hell I stayed with him

But shes my mother and im meant to stick around for her abuse as 'shes still your mother'

On the surface,shes very charming,loveable,generous and would do anything for anyone,always there with good advice and help

Scratch that surface and shes pure evil

I tried for many years to 'be better','be the dd she would be proud of' and I tied myself into knots for her-nothing was good enough,no matter what I did,she'd find something to pick on

Shes tried on many occasions (especially now im nc) to pull me down and drag me to hell

It was the most painful thing I've ever done-to admit she not only didnt love me,but she really hated me and would have dined out on it if id died

I cant go back to my home town as ill be spotted by some fool who will fall over themselves to tell her that I've been there and so the hate and bile starts up again (on the surface its all 'oh was she?but i get the hate afterwards)

Shes turned a lot of people against me-people who have known me for years,my friends,colleagues,strangers and family-they swallow her bollocks as they all know they'll be next so gloss over her actions

Her own mother was even more evil-she makes rose west look like an angel (the only reason she didnt manage to murder anyone,is she didnt get a chance) and my mother prides herself shes 'done better in life and for her children'

She hasn't,shes picked up the batton and ran with it

Trigger warning
About 11 years ago,I was raped

She found out (I was nc by this point) and dined out on this gossip and made sure she got some free lunches out of it with people who just wanted the gossip

She didnt know the 'finer' details so made them up-making me out to be 'the slag that deserved it'

One 'normal' friend asked her what she was doing to support me as I must have been going through hell

My mother laughed 'oh k,she didnt notice she HAD been raped until the cheque bounced!hahahaha!'

She then tried to get in touch with my rapist to support him (thankfully he knew batshit when he saw it and told her to go away in no soft words)

She then tried to show up to support him at court and cheered when he was found 'not guilty'

She then ran round,scoffing more free lunches and filling in her friends on the details while laughing at me

That's one of the many,many reasons why im nc and if anyone wants to judge me for it,feel free

The people who know me,the ones that love me,the ones who support me are the ones that matter

The rest dont pay my rent so they dont matter

I think it depends and that it is difficult to tell. I think lots of people go through a stage of blaming their parents for stuff and that eventually most people come out the other side of that and perhaps forgive their parents their short comings and appreciate the good things they did. I think sometimes today people take quite a black and white view and so cut their parents off, go low or no contact even if this is quite an extreme reaction. In other cases there is genuine abused and good reason for cutting off contact.

Unless I had a lot of privileged information I wouldn't know which of the above it was.

I think it can be either. But because children find it very very difficult to give up on trying to get their parent to love them, the ones who go no contact at a younger age or more easily are more likely to be entitled/spoilt. The ones who do it much later on after years of turmoil are more likely to have abusive parents. Then of course there is parental alienation/family scapegoating which is usually caused by the other spouse on a separation/divorce. Those are the three main situations that come to mind but this is of course a simplistic, generalistic answer and there will be plenty of cases that don't fit those patterns.

Neither. I would just think yeah, clearly something really difficult has gone on for it to end in estrangement. But I wouldn't apportion blame or even suspect one way or another. Estrangement is really quite common in families, it's not a big unusual thing.

Well we all know what the assumption around here is.
Apparently younger people can never, ever be selfish or unreasonable.
And no, I'm not estranged. Just aware that heroes and villains is too easy a resort.

Despite how it's portrayed in much media, I don't think people estrange thenselves from parents for petty reasons or because a partner or therapist manipulated them to do so or whatever. It tends to happen for very good reasons.

I am sure there are some situations when the parent has genuinely done nothing wrong and the child is just narcissistic or something, and obviously sometimes abusive partners will demand estrangement from parents, but those are edge cases.

Depends, if i met someone and they were estranged from their daughter, i would assume it was fault of the parents.

If i met someone who was estranged from their son i would assume it was the fault of the son, or if i'm honest assume the mum and DIL dont get on and she has encouraged son to go no contact.

My husbands dad left them when he was 11 and sister 13. He'd been unfaithful and went to live with the ow. He tried to make an effort to see his children but my DH's sister was in her teenage years and rightfully very hurt by his actions and told him to fuck off. He did, he still saw my DH but never his daughter.

My DH had sporadic relation with him up until his death, so did I when I came into the picture. He wasn't a bad man but made dreadful choices spurred on/led by a really truthfully wicked 'step mother' but ultimately he was weak and abandoned his daughter and made his son's relationship with him awkward.

I do wonder and wondered what he said to people asking him about any children and what his own justification was for totally cutting out his daughter. In his mind he probably justified it with her not wanting to see him but he made zero effort after what he had done so you can't put that on a child.

Interested in this as I’m currently doing through it and it’s pretty awful. My DF has decided to become NC through no overly obvious reasons. Has been a strained relationship for some time but I’ve worked hard to maintain it as best as I can and he has not been easy. I went though I really traumatic year last year and he pretty much decided then would be the optimal time to go NC. I’m still hurting.

Interesting question, as DH has a great relationship with his son, but is NC with his daughter (he has tried to improve things for years, but she's just hard work)

Have you posted this before? There was a similar thread a couple of months ago.

For both children not to speak to their parent, I would definitely assume something had gone on in childhood and that the parent had not behaved in the best way. As pp have said, children who are raised in a loving, supportive family don’t cut their parents off.

My brother and I are both nc with our mother for the exact same reasons - childhood abuse that culminated in her being a risk to mine and my brother's children. She was unable to recognise or prioritise the needs of the child needs over her adult wants. Her behaviour was so dangerous and damaging that it wasn't safe to keep her in our lives at all for the children's benefit and ours.

You really shouldn't assume.

Based on the people I know: definitely the parents. Even the one person I know who could be considered the problem (created a lot of drama and unpleasantness through drug abuse) his behaviour was absolutely rooted in the way he was (or wasn’t!) parented.

People absolutely judge if you are NC with your parents.

I have heard “oh I could never - you only have one mum and one dad” so many times in life. Even when people know you are NC because your parents were hideous people - violent and neglectful - there is still an assumption that you should give a chance.

My earliest memory is my father asking me what my favourite Christmas present had been, then putting that toy on the fire because I’d been too nosy, I was 3. I remember the smell of burning flesh when my brother was burned by the iron for being cheeky. My P1 teacher (who had tried to get SW involved) staged a prize raffle so I left for a school holiday with a backpack full of mini boxes of cereal and non/perishable snacks (that I knew I had to hide) so I wasn’t starving.

Despite that when my father was dying with cancer a few years ago (I was removed by ny grandparents at 7 and hadn’t seen him at all even in passing since I was 14) I have had family members fall out with me because I refused to see him. As I’m the one that stood fast and am now not spoken to by my siblings and aunt people assume I was the issue.

I think people do judge as they have had such decent parents that it's completely unimaginable to not have contact with them. I've not spoken to my parents for 27 year's due to a childhood of neglect, domestic abuse & alcoholism, I don't share this with anyone & it's been so long that I don't think about it but I am aware that if people do ask me they judge me.

I've got adult children. I'd be more likely to blame the adult as I've always had a good relationship with my own adult dc but my aggressively mentally ill mother bullied and abused me and my father.

I don’t think anything, secretly or not. Someone else’s personal business is just that, and I don’t presume to know the ins and outs of it.

I have a great relationship with my parents, but I’m not so lacking in imagination that I can’t conceive of someone else having a different experience with their own.

I suppose it would depend on my personal knowledge of the people in question, the parents or their adult children.
That scenario has been my only experience of this, and my response has been equivocal. As in hmm… can see why that might have happened…. But nothing more than that. And emphasis on the ‘might’.
I do know someone (not a relation of mine) who could well be a somewhat tricky in-law. But they are handled very well by their wise relation-by-marriage.

Yes it's amazing how everyone tropes out the old 'but they are your mum/dad etc' like that is a free pass to treat people terribly & not be called out for it. I say this over & over to my friends & family I am in contact with: you reap what you sow when it comes to relationships. It's not about revenge or bitterness for me it's about being boundaried & realising my life has been so much calmer, safer & free since I cut off contact. Wishing you peace xx

I'm sure this thread was originally posted a few months ago! 🤔

Anyway, I'd always judge the parent involved if the adult children are estranged. Always

The only reason I maintain the semblance of a relationship with my 80+ mother is precisely because of the judgement I read on here about elderly parents and how they must have loved you, she’s your mum etc and I assume that in real life the same would happen. She’s a terrible mother but very middle class and wealthy so maintains a very different persona with her community. If I cut her off entirely my ego couldn’t take the battering it would get from her friends so I am grey rocking like a master. @JustAnotherWhinger has articulated beautifully exactly what I know will happen if I cut her off. (I’m very sorry this has happened to you and you are much braver than me).

I am NC with my family, so my perspective is obviously going to be biased. But before that happened, I knew two families where there was estrangement. In both cases, I either knew or suspected that the reason for the estrangement was the parent’s atrocious behaviour.

In one case, my friend chose to have a home birth when her parents didn’t want her to have one. She was a 30 something married woman fully able to make sensible decisions about her body with a low risk straightforward pregnancy and her home birth was fully supported by her midwife team. Her parents heard she was in labour, drove 5 hours to her house, and started banging on the door and tried to kick the door down and assault her and her Dh. They have always been controlling nutters, this was the last in a long line of bonkers behaviour, but I think this was finally when the cookie crumbled and she was like, no more.

The other, I knew the parent but not the children. Apparently, the story goes, his wife caused parental alienation and the daughters got angry at him because their mum told them he wasn’t paying any maintenance when in fact he was paying like £2000 a month (earns £250k + bonuses). So she turned them against him and they cut him off. I always thought it seemed like a funny story. Like he tried too hard to get everyone to believe it, if that makes sense, and I just had a feeling it was a big lie. It came out several years down the line that the reason his wife divorced him and the reason his daughters had no contact with him was because he wasn’t paying any convicted of sexually abusing them. It all made complete sense after that (and obviously he’s not someone I have anything to do with either after that).

I can’t think of any families with estrangement where the fault lies anywhere other than completely with the parents, my own situation included.