AIBU to think face coverings in public should be banned?

[OpheliaWasntMad]

Should all types of face covering in public be banned? I think they should. Mainly I’m concerned that people in balaclavas and face coverings are shoplifting and stealing phones etc with impunity.
People with balaclavas on marches look threatening and sinister.
Women with niqabs create a barrier between themselves and others as it’s hard to form connections if you can’t see someone’s facial expressions.
I think all face covering should be banned. It contributes to a society that feels more unsafe and divided.

You’re missing the point (& sarcasm. Quelle surprise).
your issue with niqabs have nothing to do with public behaviour accountability or anti social behaviour. “Look it up”!

Nah I dont agree. I think it woukd lead to harassment of some people while others would be allowed to do as they wish. I think we just keep away from telling people what to wear. Imagine going into Camden Locks and trying to police what people are wearing. You'd end up in the bloody canal.

Well obviously not everyone agrees .
But the poll shows a majority in favour

That doesn’t make it correct, or even reasonable.

”Last week a group of people wearing pink hats committed a violent, antisocial act. Banning hats will prevent this happening again.”

The logic doesn’t follow. The article you posted from The Guardian was from the peak of Covid restrictions when everyone was (supposedly) masking. Is there recent evidence that this is still the case? Banning masks won’t stop antisocial behaviour if that antisocial behaviour continues to go unpunished.

I am interested in what you really want OP? Do you want to make sure gangs of youths committing antisocial acts are stopped? Or do you want to stop people wearing medical aids or religious dress in public?

I don't bother to try to establish a relationship if face coverings are worn. I don't mean a headscarf!! I mean the full mask.

My lovely DIL is a Muslim and she wears neither. It's not a religious requirement - it's a personal choice. If you choose to cover your entire face from me, I'll be polite, but I won't expect to build any kind of relationship with you.

To me, it's all part of the 'it's women's fault if men can't control their lust' attitude.

Very few societies have no means by which women can choose to shield themselves from 'the male gaze' for reasons of privacy and dignity as the woman sees it.
For you that might mean covering cleavage, upper legs, midriff, avoiding unisex changing/toilet facilities, or any of the many things non religious women may do because of personal ideas of privacy/dignity, safety, modesty even. Face covering may be considered extreme by Western cultural standards, but the principle is the same.
I wouldn't like people to be telling me that to cover any part of my body was illegal. Because telling women they must show their faces is as bad as telling them they can't.

A shop owner should be allowed to decide who goes into their store to combat anti social behaviour. The vast majority of shopkeepers can tell the difference between a disabled person in a mask vs a gang of thugs in masks.

No - the face is paramount in communicating all kinds of things in human societies.

I have no problem with 'modest' clothing choices. But you can't compare covering almost all your face with simply not showing cleavage or legs.

I do feel deprived, disrespected and resentful when people choose to conceal their faces from me. This includes people (celebrities or people aping them) who insist on wearing sunglasses indoors!!

Anna Wintour, I'm looking at you!

Wow - “deprived, disrespected and resentful” and “choose to conceal [their] faces from me”

Respectfully, it is not about you. No one owes you sight of any part of their body, especially in inconsequential passing encounters like when travelling on public transport or doing the shopping. I am on the bus to go to work, not for anyone to look at. (Not that I am anything to look at without my mask!)

Demanding people reveal their bodies is as authoritarian as demanding people conceal their bodies. (I am personally very uncomfortable with cultural expectations that women cover their faces, but demanding women remove their face coverings is similarly controlling.)

I find it “disrespectful and resentful” to be told I should remove a medical device because someone else thinks they have the right to view my body without it.

During the masked madness of 2020 and 2021, shop keepers reported that their pulse would race whenever anyone wearing a mask walked into the shop, which would be all the time.

Another shop had a little shrine to Saint Boris on the door: a picture of him at his podium (without a mask), captioned "Boris says you must wear a mask in this shop". That shop has since closed down.

But that’s not what you said. You said shops should be able to ban entry to people with their faces covered.

If you think shops should just be able to ban entry to “gangs of thugs” then why not say this?

(As I have said in a previous post, this is not a theoretical argument for me - I have been assaulted simply for sitting on a bus wearing a mask. These attitudes have real consequences.)

Totally agree, I think generally these types of comments are made by people who have had very limited actual interaction with a woman who dresses in this way. There are also plenty of young women out there who chose this so as a feminist I'll back that right to choice all day long. Its very different to a balaclava which is just unnecessary. If people feel unwell/ are immuno compromised why shouldn't they be able to wear a face covering to feel safer. I think there needs to be understanding that face covering should be removed coming into a business for example but with certain exceptions

Wow - “deprived, disrespected and resentful” and “choose to conceal [their] faces from me”
Respectfully, it is not about you. No one owes you sight of any part of their body, especially in inconsequential passing encounters like when travelling on public transport or doing the shopping. I am on the bus to go to work, not for anyone to look at. (Not that I am anything to look at without my mask!)

Of course no-one owes me sight of their face. And I don't owe them a close relationship. That's fine by me!

The idea that someone else feels entitled to see my face makes me want to wear the Niqab! And I'm not Muslim. Maybe we could all wear red and green badges, green for "I'm open to connection", red for "please leave me and my face alone".

We don't all feel like interacting every day. Leaving my house and going out into public does not make me yours. What if I'm having a bad day?

I also don't want to live in a police state where I can be challenged because I don't unwrap my scarf quickly enough when I get to the pub.

Hardly “loads”. A small handful, at most. And all of them are countries where terror attacks related to face coverings were an actual issue. They didn’t ban them on the off chance that it might happen one day.

During the winter I'm in absolute agony with sinus pain outside without any face covering (balaclava / scarf over face /etc.) A blanket ban just because someone feels some way about religious dress would make me rage. Try being considerate of others!

Turkey , Uzbekistan and all the “stans” , Tunisia , Chad … about 10 Muslim countries.
We do also have security issues in the UK . Banning face covering ( with the exception of medical issues) would be helpful in this respect also

I agree about the shoplifting - why do you need a balaclava in sainsburys during warmer months , there has to be something done to prevent shoplifting it’s very blatant now.

The police are worse than useless, and won’t enforce the rules.

But you seem to want head coverings banned everywhere OP- by your own admission, most of the countries with a 'ban' have limited this to public buildings (law courts, council offices and the like) and not privately owned spaces, transport or fresh air.

One of the main reason for the uptick of loutish behaviour (masks worn or otherwise) by teens is a TikTok craze. Banning harmful content online and controlling exposure of young people to social media would arguably have a far greater impact on these toxic social media crazes.

The Lower the Flags group have been forced into covering their faces after Raise The Flags (TM) took photos of them and plastered them all over the internet leading to threats of violence and even death threats.

There's loads of balaclavas around now, it's quite worrying

Sainsburys could very easily put a sign up asking people to remove non medical masks and head/face coverings which are not religious. They did this with scooters and wheelie shoes. In fact, I have seen this with an accompanying infographic.

I have. It's not common but it happens and it's bloody awful.

I don't really like niqabs or burqas but I don't believe in the state deciding what I can and can't wear and I don't think things should be banned because I don't like them.

Also, why would a shoplifter care about breaking the mask law when they are breaking the no stealing law? The shoplifting problem is caused by punishments that are too light, and demand from otherwise law abiding people who'll buy a cheap joint in a pub car park.

The police struggle to enforce the laws we have already, we don't need more laws- particularly ones that are an easy tick in a box whilst they ignore things that are harder to solve.

Edited to change law abusing to law abuding

Is the turban ok because it’s men with the choice so must be legit, whereas women can’t make free choices so if they’re wearing a hijab or niqab, it must be forced? Also, not every Sikh wears a turban.

I have zero issues with niqabs or burqas, if a woman has chosen to wear it. I can understand why they would want to, I imagine it provides a certain sense of security. I hate being gawped at by men so I get it.