to resent pressure on grandmothers to provide childcare?

[ReluctantGM]

I feel like there’s a real pressure placed on grandmothers that just isn’t there for grandfathers.

I work and I want to keep working. Partly because I need the income, but also because it gives me structure and some space. But because I’m the grandmother, there’s a clear pressure on me to step in and provide regular childcare so my daughter and daughter-in-law can return to work. I’m often told I could be spending more time with the grandchildren and building a bond with them.

I do understand that childcare is expensive and that life is more expensive these days. I’m not dismissing that at all. But I’ve said more than once that I can’t do it. I don’t have the energy or capacity for it, and I don’t want to take on that level of responsibility.

My DD and DS keep bringing it up and have even suggested that I go part time or rearrange my hours to make it work. It feels like pressure rather than a genuine choice.

I was exhausted by parenting the first time round. My DS had mental health problems and needed a lot of care and support well into his early twenties. I gave everything to that stage of my life. Yes I love my grandchildren, but that doesn’t mean I want to be responsible for them day to day.

I also find it really hard to tolerate crying babies and young children now and I don’t want to keep getting ill from all the bugs they inevitably bring home.

Yesterday I was out shopping and saw a toddler having a full tantrum and felt relieved that I don’t have to deal with that anymore. I walked away to get away from the noise.

What I find particularly frustrating is that there is absolutely no expectation on my husband. No one is asking him to change his work or take this on. It’s just assumed I should be the one to step in.

I’ve spoken to other friends and they feel the same pressure. Their husbands get no pressure and there are no expectations of them to adjust their work hours or give up work to look after children.

Why do adult children/DIL/SIL feel they can pressure grandmothers into providing childcare, while grandfathers are left alone or not even asked, especially if they’re working?

I agree with you OP, I think it’s misogynistic claptrap. Men seem to need at least two generations of women at their beck and call to be able to function, and women unfortunately take that out on each other. Your daughter and DIL will no doubt be feeling the pressure from doing the bulk of the childcare and domestic duties while working and rather than dealing with their own husbands’ lack of support they are attempting to pressure you into plugging the gaps. So both men can benefit from two income households, children who are cared for (for free), and domestic bliss - all while you run around after their children.

Next time they bring this up you need to hit the roof. Ask them why they had children without planning for this eventuality. Why they are pressuring you and not your husband. Why you are being asked to provide free labour to two families. Ask them why their time and careers are more important than yours. Ask them what they were planning on paying you for the service they want you to provide. Ask them if they will match your current salary and pension contributions. It’s absolutely outrageous.

My friend’s husband used to take their kids to her mum’s house when she would have a couple of hours away from the house to catch up with friends etc. because he couldn’t possibly deal with his own children. All under the guise of the kids spending time with their GPs. It’s utter bullshit.

This entire post is just full of emotional manipulation and misogyny. It’s so sad that women still think like this in the 21st century never mind that they use these arguments against women who dare to question the status quo.

They are spectacularly cheeky to continue to nag you when you have said No.

You need to find your anger.
You need to work to pay your way, and to provide a pension for yourself.

The absolute cheek of them to think they can pressure you to be their skivvy aupair.

I also think working is definitely easier that being free childcare for 3 children under 3.

Nightmare stuff.

I think you’re getting a bit of a hard time on this thread, but don’t you have a partner?

It’s all so transactional isn’t it? As if providing full on childcare is in any way comparable to hanging out with the grandchildren or babysitting from time to time. The way to build a healthy relationship with anybody is to base that relationship on quality time, not relentless labour given grudgingly due to emotional manipulation. And why do none of these posters seem at all concerned about their dads not having a good relationship with their grandchildren?

The poster does and said that:

Both my husband and dad were nowhere near me when this happened. My husband was on his way home but was going to be a long time. My dad would have helped if he was there. I asked my mum because she was the only one close by. She wasn't even at work at the time, she was at home she just didn't want to. The not providing any childcare I find a bit annoying considering all the help she got, but I can accept that. Refusing to help ever even in emergencies I don't understand at all.

I can definitely understand why the poster would be upset that their own mother wouldn’t help in an emergency not sure why OP is giving them a hard time over hoping for help in such instances.

My dad was hands on. In fact, at his funeral my brother related the fact that my dad missed a Scotland goal on the telly because he was changing my brothers nappy. My brother was born in 1967. My Dad was a policeman who worked shifts. He ironed his own uniforms. I still remember the smell of the brown paper he used to do it. He polished all our shoes. He read to us every night in bed. He bathed us. He took us to the library. He shared everything with my mum. If your husband isn’t hands on, or your dad wasn’t, then it’s not because it wasn’t the done thing. It’s because they didn’t want to.

The fact that you have asked the OP what her husband thinks is astonishing. What does it matter?

Its what she thinks that matters!

Yes I do but he wasn't there at the time and wasn't going to be back for a while. I don't really understand the logic that having a partner means I shouldn't ask my mum for help in an emergency. I would do whatever I could to help anyone in an emergency situation with a young child, never mind if that child was my grandchild.

Don’t think it was the Op giving her a hard time.

Where was he?

On his way home from work. He has a long commute. My mum was 5 minutes away.

Well I think your mum let you down in that instance.

Interesting thread, and I’m sorry you’re being put under such ridiculous pressure.

in a broader sense, I think some of this is to do with the younger generation being financially shafted by their parents. People who worked in ordinary jobs in the 80s, often with many years of the mother staying at home, had kids at the biologically optimal time, bought ordinary-seeming houses in London and the South East, and are now sitting on hundreds of thousands of pounds of assets, receiving good work pensions, and enjoying good health because of a lifetime of mostly decent NHS care. Their children are often working much much harder in jobs that require more qualifications and are more competitive to get, delaying children until the mid-late 30s (more tired, especially the lethal combo of perimenopause and young kids — that’s me!), and living in houses half the size of the one they grew up in.

Subconsciously, I think my generation and the ones below me feel slightly embittered that there isn’t enough to go round and, no matter how hard we work, we often can’t aspire to the standard of living that our parents enjoyed.

Wealthy grandparents (not saying you are one, but there are a lot) might ask themselves whether their children are actually just struggling to pay for childcare — and whether it would be easier and simpler to offer to pay for some of it.

Or maybe people should think about the cost of having children before having them.

I’m lucky that I didn’t have to ask my parents or PIL for childcare, they offered. My Dad and MIL were retired and have helped lots with all their Grandchildren. My Mum and FIL were still working until recently.

I do think help received should be paid forwards when possible as that is how society functions. I will certainly be helping my DDs with regular childcare if they have children, and help our Parents as they age.

As DH and I have been able to continue working full time throughout DDs lives due to childcare Dad and MIL have provided, we will have good pensions, savings and are on track to be mortgage free in our forties. We should therefore be in a much better financial position to reduce our income than my DDs by the time they have children. That is the plan anyway. DH and I have discussed this recently and he is also planning to have reduced hours by then so we can both do our bit.

@namezchangez in a broader sense, I think some of this is to do with the younger generation being financially shafted by their parents.

What a ridiculous London-centric comment. It was Thatcher’s government that shafted future generations, not their parents.

My DCs are in their late 20s and have all bought homes in the past five years, as did their friends, in northern England. They also started making decent pension contributions from the day they started working, which means they’re on course to have a very healthy pension pot by the time they’re 60.

I’m not a boomer. My boomer parents rented all their lives and never had pensions. In the 70s, only 50% of men were paying into pensions and only 25% of women. The vast majority of people didn’t have a pension. That figure today is almost 90% for both men and women.

Your argument seems to be that old people should sacrifice their last few precious healthy years to provide childcare because house prices were cheaper back then, and final salary pensions available to the comparatively few people who had a pension at all back then. How on earth is that the fault of an entire generation?

It’s extremely annoying when privileged people cherry-pick their own real-life examples, in your case a pensioner sitting in an expensive house with a big pension, and extrapolate that across an entire generation.

I think it's the lack of respect.

That they have asked you to give up your job, & keep asking.

Would they keep asking their dad or is a no sufficient from him?

I haven't worked for many years & I still wouldn't expect to be asked to be full time child care.

I didn't give her a hard time for asking for help in an emergency. It was the fact that she is very critical of her mum for not providing childcare but she is very accepting that her dad won't. It is the difference.

I see it on MN all the time how the DM or the MIL won't help with childcare but there is complete silence about the DF or DFIL. It is like the men do not exist.

My husband is but dads in that time generally were less than they are now. It’s common to hear about fathers who have never changed a nappy (men who are now 70/80 ish)
I don’t mean ALL fathers. That’s ridiculous. But it’s a generational change.

I asked what her husband thinks because she’s making it all about men and the fact that men aren’t asked. Therefore I’m asking what her husband thinks and whether he should therefore either offer to help instead or to back up.

no astonishment needed.

It is a regular thing on MN. Women saying their MIL or DM will not help with childcare even though they had lots of support. If a woman had support, she must pay it back for the next generation while the men in these situations sit back and enjoy their retirement.

Huh? Emotional manipulation? Where??

misogyny??

I’m suggesting that times have changed and hope that dads will be more hands on than they used to be? Is that misogyny?

I've said that she shouldn’t give up work and if she doesn’t want to help her kids then that’s ok.

But I didn’t say that. So how is my post manipulative and misogynistic?

my parents do help. Not regularly but a few days per year when we’re short on clubs and for evenings out. Mums and dads will come together to do it.

Your experience of men isn’t everyone’s.

My mum had help with me from grandmother, however my gran like many of her generation were SAHM/housewife so didn't wirk. My mum was a single mum who worked to keep us fed no help from my dad not even financial . Then my mum did help me,a bit where she could, and I paid her what I could. She was working so couldn't afford to give up work. I work FT (nearly) and Im mid-degree so no spare time and I need time to recharge myself as Im in full force perimenopause. So we won't be foing childcare at all. Babysitting adhoc or days out when he older and sleeps through yes, but nothing set. We see them all as a family once a week sometimes twice.

Society has changed where women are working now, not just caregivers. We need to change our mindset. Just because your mum got help from a grandmother who probably didn't need to work it doesn't mean you are owed help.

You could say that to a lot of posts though.

I want to know my post is emotionally manipulative and misogynistic.