to resent pressure on grandmothers to provide childcare?

[ReluctantGM]

I feel like there’s a real pressure placed on grandmothers that just isn’t there for grandfathers.

I work and I want to keep working. Partly because I need the income, but also because it gives me structure and some space. But because I’m the grandmother, there’s a clear pressure on me to step in and provide regular childcare so my daughter and daughter-in-law can return to work. I’m often told I could be spending more time with the grandchildren and building a bond with them.

I do understand that childcare is expensive and that life is more expensive these days. I’m not dismissing that at all. But I’ve said more than once that I can’t do it. I don’t have the energy or capacity for it, and I don’t want to take on that level of responsibility.

My DD and DS keep bringing it up and have even suggested that I go part time or rearrange my hours to make it work. It feels like pressure rather than a genuine choice.

I was exhausted by parenting the first time round. My DS had mental health problems and needed a lot of care and support well into his early twenties. I gave everything to that stage of my life. Yes I love my grandchildren, but that doesn’t mean I want to be responsible for them day to day.

I also find it really hard to tolerate crying babies and young children now and I don’t want to keep getting ill from all the bugs they inevitably bring home.

Yesterday I was out shopping and saw a toddler having a full tantrum and felt relieved that I don’t have to deal with that anymore. I walked away to get away from the noise.

What I find particularly frustrating is that there is absolutely no expectation on my husband. No one is asking him to change his work or take this on. It’s just assumed I should be the one to step in.

I’ve spoken to other friends and they feel the same pressure. Their husbands get no pressure and there are no expectations of them to adjust their work hours or give up work to look after children.

Why do adult children/DIL/SIL feel they can pressure grandmothers into providing childcare, while grandfathers are left alone or not even asked, especially if they’re working?

Exactly.

I still think their behaviour is dreadful, but the gender setups they seem determined to perpetuate go back to their own childhood experiences.

If they were mirroring their own childhood experiences, surely that would be both the women become SAHMs for a while?

They seem to be just fine with the concept that both parents work, despite their childhood experiences.

Loads of parents manage to hold down jobs even though their spouses travel for work. I do and it’s hard but doable.

If you’d wanted to work, you could have done. You didn’t want to work and that’s fine. And you don’t want to provide childcare now, partly because you didn’t want to work back then. That’s also fine. But as I said in a previous post, I would try to handle this situation with empathy rather than scrabbling round for reasons why your situation was different and they don’t need your help.

In any event - it seems like OP took about five years out and then went back to work. So the bulk of their remembered childhoods will be of OP working, which she has presumably done for 20+ years of their lives now.

It depends. I'm in my 70 s and love my two days a week with GC. They didn't ask though I offered. I was a mother in my teens, between my children and GC I've always had children to care for. Makes me sad that this is coming to an end. Perhaps. I accept I'm lucky that I'm fit and well and can still exhaust a two year old.

If you’d wanted to work, you could have done. You didn’t want to work and that’s fine.

She has worked for the bulk of their lives

Actually got laughed at for saying it.

You are arguing with things I’m not saying, which is rather a waste of both our evenings.

But you started quoting me, and I was talking about an excessive level of childcare.

A pp said pressure to provide excessive childcare wasn’t as widespread as people thought, and I agreed with her.

No - I laughed at you for reporting me because I couldn’t believe you view raising children as some kind of favour to them, rather than a responsibility of the parent.

but the gender setups they seem determined to perpetuate go back to their own childhood experiences.

They are not asking me because of gender set ups in their childhood. They are asking me because they need regular reliable childcare and DH cannot offer that because he travels for work. I do not travel for work..

@ReluctantGM I could have written your post except that in my case the expectation I will work part time to look after my GC comes from every fricking person who has said "oh you're going to keep working full time?" rather than from my DD.

How many people have assumed my DH will go part time? Not one. We are both in our best earning years, and nobody would think of suggesting a man cuts back his hours to do childcare, the idea is ridiculous, but a lot of people assume a woman will. Same old assumptions about the role and worth of a woman. Come to think of it, I earn more than DH, which makes it even more of an insane idea.

Irrespective of the reason, you provided more care which reinforced a stereotypical set up. And you've also said they haven't asked him as he works away - which is the same reason you've given for doing more when they were small, so why is it a surprise that a reason for him not doing childcare 30 years ago remains a relevant factor today?

And no, it doesn't all have to be paid back , it isn't transactional. In fact in my example it clearly wasn't being paid back - it is just one element that stands out to me as hypocritical - to benefit from multi generational help with raising kids but choosing not to pass that on. I am not even saying this is directed at you, I haven't seen you address the level of childcare help you got from your parents/in laws, but is one I've noticed in the greater debate

It's not new? My grandparents basically raised me. My parents do 1 day per week now. I am grateful but they have definitely not paid forward what they got..... Did your parents help you out?

But why do they want you to do it? Purely to save themselves money?

My dad took a year off work in the 80’s to look after me when I was 1 so my mum could finish her teaching degree after pausing it for a year. It damaged his career, and hers - it went against the “sexist” grain but they did it

So he only took a year off work, the rest of the time your parents modelled and replicated those attitudes that are based on sexism within their family?

I think the thing about 'what help did you get from your parents' or 'what help did your grandparents give your parents' is a bit of a red herring. It's apples and oranges. Just because someone 'had help' from the previous generation that doesn't mean they are required to, or even can, help the next generation.

The world changes, fewer SAHM, more grandmothers still working, and especially, more older/retired people have more active lives than before. I know that after retirement my parents were more active and traveled more than my grandparents and DH and I traveled even more than my parents did (RV'ing multiple times per year for 4-8 weeks at a time). I saw no need for my parents to change their lifestyle to accommodate my childcare needs. And I don't expect they would have done so unless it was an absolute necessity. Which it wasn't.

And FWIW my grandparents didn't do regular childcare because it was the 50s/60s in the US and SAHM were the norm, but they would babysit the DGC if needed.

Things that were taken for granted 'back then' cannot be assumed now.

@ReluctantGM I know you've said 'no' but have you been really decisive in your 'no'? Because if they aren't taking no for an answer maybe it's time to get really 'stern' with them and then tell them to not mention it again.

You can’t do it all OP if you are working you aren’t available and that’s all there is to it. Can you offfer to babysit once a fortnight on a weekend so they can go out together ?

Irrespective of the reason, you provided more care which reinforced a stereotypical set up.

What I did years ago was about raising my own children. That’s not the same as being expected to take on childcare for the next generation. The fact I carried more of the load back then doesn’t mean I’m now automatically responsible again.

And no, it doesn't all have to be paid back , it isn't transactional. In fact in my example it clearly wasn't being paid back - it is just one element that stands out to me as hypocritical - to benefit from multi generational help with raising kids but choosing not to pass that on.

If it’s not something that has to be paid back, then it can’t also be framed as hypocritical if someone chooses not to do the same. You can’t have it both ways.

People accept help when it’s offered, often because they need it at the time. That doesn’t automatically create a lifelong obligation to replicate it later, especially when circumstances, health, work and capacity are completely different.

There is a difference between support that’s freely given and pressure or expectation. One comes from choice, the other is entitlement.

@AcrossthePond55 completely agree. My mum was a Sahm so her parents only stepped in if she was ill for a number of days or if we were dropped off there for a beach holiday (they were a couple of hours away so no overnight babysitting etc). But they were retired, as was my other GM (who did return to work after a long SAHM stint).

There’s no reasonable comparison to grandparents still working!

You care more about your dhs work commitment than he has cared about yours over the years

Why doesnt he change jobs now
You did when it was necessary why cant he step up and take his turn now

I understand he earns more but it’s obvious why as the financial sacrifices have always been on you, not him

Honestly OP don’t you think it’s time you stop making excuses for him

I agree perhaps your kids are asking because they know your dh won’t entertain the idea and as you have in the past you're more likely to. Time they all learn a new lesson

My children are not at the marriage /children stage but I have already told them
that I don’t intend to provide continuous childcare for them when they marry and have children .
I don’t mind some babysitting on the odd occasion or taking any future grandkids for some weeks during the summer break and emergency situations etc

It doesn't mean you're automatically responsible, in fact you have made it clear to them that you won't be responsible - which is absolutely your choice. But you're annoyed they didn't ask your husband, when their reason for not asking him was the same as the reason you didn't expect him to do that in the prior generation.

I feel the help provided is a tangent as it doesnt seem relevant to you - but I still feel I can consider someone's choices hypocritical, without seeking to deny them the agency to make such choices.

To be clear, I think your children are being rude and pushy - if you've said no, particularly when you've a full time job, that should be the end of it. It just seems disingenuous to be outraged about the feminist implications when they're similar to choices you yourself made

@DrPrunesqualer eh? She doesn’t want to do it and she doesn’t want DH to do it either. And - however the situation has arisen - it makes sense to maximise pensions and savings ahead of retirement as a couple who share a house and a life.

A more constructive suggestion would be that the DS and SIL go part time so their wives can build career earnings back up more quickly, no?

You have no idea what he has done for me or the financial sacrifices he has made.

Have you seen the job market out there? We are both fortunate to have permanent jobs. Neither of us want to leave them.

The DC are learning a lesson because I have said no to childcare.

I was responding and tagged a post by OP defending her dhs job.
This seems to be the lifetime modus operandi whilst her career has been sacrificed

A relevant post for what I tagged and Nothing more

of note I’ve already made suggestions upthread but a suggestion here wasn’t the point of the post I tagged …..