to resent pressure on grandmothers to provide childcare?

[ReluctantGM]

I feel like there’s a real pressure placed on grandmothers that just isn’t there for grandfathers.

I work and I want to keep working. Partly because I need the income, but also because it gives me structure and some space. But because I’m the grandmother, there’s a clear pressure on me to step in and provide regular childcare so my daughter and daughter-in-law can return to work. I’m often told I could be spending more time with the grandchildren and building a bond with them.

I do understand that childcare is expensive and that life is more expensive these days. I’m not dismissing that at all. But I’ve said more than once that I can’t do it. I don’t have the energy or capacity for it, and I don’t want to take on that level of responsibility.

My DD and DS keep bringing it up and have even suggested that I go part time or rearrange my hours to make it work. It feels like pressure rather than a genuine choice.

I was exhausted by parenting the first time round. My DS had mental health problems and needed a lot of care and support well into his early twenties. I gave everything to that stage of my life. Yes I love my grandchildren, but that doesn’t mean I want to be responsible for them day to day.

I also find it really hard to tolerate crying babies and young children now and I don’t want to keep getting ill from all the bugs they inevitably bring home.

Yesterday I was out shopping and saw a toddler having a full tantrum and felt relieved that I don’t have to deal with that anymore. I walked away to get away from the noise.

What I find particularly frustrating is that there is absolutely no expectation on my husband. No one is asking him to change his work or take this on. It’s just assumed I should be the one to step in.

I’ve spoken to other friends and they feel the same pressure. Their husbands get no pressure and there are no expectations of them to adjust their work hours or give up work to look after children.

Why do adult children/DIL/SIL feel they can pressure grandmothers into providing childcare, while grandfathers are left alone or not even asked, especially if they’re working?

So it's a threat - give up your needed job or you can lie and rot?

Hold on a minute - this is a poll of grandparents who are providing childcare.

The vast majority of grandparents in the UK are not providing childcare.

That was who my post was about. So I’m not understanding the relevance of this?

No one regardless of childcare offered or not should expect their own children to care for them when elderly. Only the selfish expect that tbh.

Yes these numbers are meaningless in isolation.

Just say no. Total entitlement from your children.

I do agree that no one should be expecting elder care from their children, but I also think no one should expect child care from their parents. And I’m really shocked by how many people seem to think it’s directly related as in “if you don’t help now, don’t expect anyone to help you later” with no personal circumstances taken into account. I mean, on this thread, the OP has said she can’t afford to take time off, so why on earth does anyone think that means she doesn’t care and therefore shouldn’t be given any consideration when she’s older?

I think they exist, but mostly online. To get people wound up.

How many threads have there been about grandparents and childcare over the past couple of days?

Can’t go more than a couple of days without whinging about having raised “entitled brats” it’s seems.

More than half of the UK’s grandparents are providing some form of free childcare for their grandchildren – and saving families thousands of pounds a year as a result – according to research from over 50s experts SunLife.

SunLife polled more than 2,000 grandparents and found that 52% provide some sort of childcare during the working week.

There are around 14 million grandparents in the UK, over 7 million of whom provide regular childcare. This means that collectively, grandparents are saving their families £96bn in childcare costs every year

There you go - 52 % of grandparents providing some form of child care, with the more detailed report breaking down how much they do. So… millions of them across the country, as opposed to your personal view that they don’t exist because you don’t know any, @Vivi0

52% of the 2000 grandparents who were polled.

Sure - but 2000 is a pretty representative sample size for a poll.

So you get all the school holidays off then. I don’t. Of course you’d have the time to see them in the holidays. I get 4 weeks off a year. A week or more of that mandated at Xmas. So I don’t have all that time to travel to see them at all

Assume you won't be expecting elderly care from your daughter when you are older then?

Firstly do I have to give up my job to ensure I will have elderly care?

Secondly I have a son. If I was going to expect any care, why would DS be excluded?

You sound hugely sexist.

Awful.

Which is allowed.

I'm still intrigued as to the thought process behind asking someone who works full time for childcare!

@ReluctantGM you’re annoyed about the sexist assumption that grandmothers should provide care not grandfathers and you’re right, it is sexist and annoying.

But it sounds like you modelled this sexist attitude in your own parenting, as you say you did most of the work, and your husband’s job involved travelling so was prioritised.

The numbers on this vary massively depending on the study.

It’s interesting that you are so keen to take the very top line figure as fact. It looks likely from taking the average of all the studies, that it’s less than half of grandparents who are providing some kind of childcare. And the more childcare that is being provided, the lesser that figure becomes.

The idea of grandparents giving up their job to look after their grandchildren full time, 5 days a week, is preposterous, yet that is the common situation that posters try to sell on Mumsnet. It’s no wonder most people can’t relate to it; because it just isn’t happening. And if it is, it’s extremely rare.

Do I believe that grandparents provide some kind of childcare? Absolutely. But nowhere near the 5 days a week scenario.

And actually, a lot of what is described as “childcare” turns out to just be good old fashioned babysitting, and actively wanting to spend time with one’s grandchildren. Picking up one’s grandchild from school occasionally, or having them over for dinner or lunch, taking them on a day out, isn’t exactly excessive or regular “childcare”, but it is referred to as such in these kind of studies. But surely that’s just basic relationship building?

You aren’t unreasonable to say no. You are still working and you don’t want to. That’s that.

I’d still try to be kind and empathetic when delivering that message, rather than angry and resentful about being asked. Times are hard. They can’t afford to take time out of the workforce, like you did. You have no experience of the financial and practical juggle they’re confronting. Childcare is staggeringly expensive. There’s potentially guilt involved with sending your child to nursery. Parents who do have grandparents who are willing and able to provide free childcare have an enormous financial and logistical advantage, which - like many advantages - often gives rise to more advantages (eg not having to dive out of work to do nursery pick-up helps with work performance).

It’s fine that you don’t want to and can’t do it. But - for the sake of your relationships with them as much as anything else - I’d try to deal with it with maximum empathy.

How did I model the sexist attitude? I didn't ask DM give up her job to look after my DC when they were young.

So because it worked for me and DH financially that I stayed at home for a few years when the DC were under 5 and then returned to work I have modelled a sexist attitude. OK 🙄

I feel like there are a few parts to this.

The sexist assumption that women do childcare is pretty wide spread and not limited to grandparent care. If you admit you provided most of the childcare in your own children's youth due to your husband's big job, it doesn't seem surprising that they assume the same in the next generation.

Asking grandparents for childcare is divisive on here. It seems they've asked and you've said no, is that not the end of it? Yes it is annoying and bordering rude for them to keep on about it, but you're not obliged.

The other point on the grandparent debate that always occurs to me is how much care your own parents/in laws provided. My dad particularly is very much of the I have done my time, don't want to be weighed down with commitments type. Which is of course well within his rights. But it always seems hypocritical to me, as we were at grandparents weekly (2 sets, so 2 days/week), and stayed with them or aunties etc for longer periods while my parents went on holidays.

No one is saying that you did this in a vacuum, or with the intent of it being sexist - I don't think I would have worded it the same way as the PP. But the reality is that your kids had a female caregiver/male breadwinner setup modelled to them as "normal" (in common with a lot of wider society). So it's reinforced what the culture already presents to them, because it was their own experience growing up - quite apart from them growing up with you as individuals, where you did the bulk of care and their dad did not.

They don't exist separate from their experiences.

I still think their behaviour is dreadful, but the gender setups they seem determined to perpetuate go back to their own childhood experiences.

If you admit you provided most of the childcare in your own children's youth due to your husband's big job, it doesn't seem surprising that they assume the same in the next generation.

I did most of the care because DH was away with work. Neither DD/DS or their spouses travel for their work so it is not even the same situation. Why would they assume the same now?

But it always seems hypocritical to me, as we were at grandparents weekly (2 sets, so 2 days/week), and stayed with them or aunties etc for longer periods while my parents went on holidays.

So any help that was received has to be paid back?

The idea of grandparents giving up their job to look after their grandchildren full time, 5 days a week, is preposterous, yet that is the common situation that posters try to sell on Mumsnet. It’s no wonder most people can’t relate to it; because it just isn’t happening. And if it is, it’s extremely rare.

We must be reading different MN threads then - I am seeing the grandparents do some kind of childcare posts a lot more than a five days a week example. Indeed, as the two kids are asking OP to go part time, they are not assuming a five day a week grandparent provision either,

In my own post upthread I cited three examples - from a full time, all four grandkids one to a one evening a week one.

And the quote clearly says “52% do some kind of childcare in the week”

You are arguing with things I’m not saying, which is rather a waste of both our evenings.

I think the polls are potentially higher. We are in the minority of people who have kids that get no childcare help at all from grandparents that I know. I mean its just us and one other family I know that dont.

@ReluctantGM Yes, because you - a woman - took on the burden of childrearing, and you absorbed the negative impact on your career and earnings, and prioritised your husband - a man’s - career.

Maybe it worked for you, but it’s still founded on sexist assumptions in society that women’s careers are less important and their role is looking after young children - and you modelled and replicated those attitudes, which are founded on sexism, within your own family.

My dad took a year off work in the 80’s to look after me when I was 1 so my mum could finish her teaching degree after pausing it for a year. It damaged his career, and hers - it went against the “sexist” grain but they did it