AIBU to want cafes to be dog free after grandchild was bitten?

[OhSoTrue]

What to do? Took my 12 year old gc into a cafe for lunch today, and a dog
snapped her ankle as we walked by. It drew blood. No idea why it picked on her.
She did nothing beyond walking in the door.

The dog owner 'fled the scene' as it were. Made a hasty exit while he had the chance and everyone was looking at the injury.

Wouldn't it just be better if we kept dogs out of what really should be an exclusively human area?

The argument that "they are allowed here so suck it up" is wearing thin.
We are all very fed up of your dogs in human spaces. The vast majority of us would prefer a dog free space.

Not if it will lose them money.

Can anyone actually produce any hard evidence that it does?.

I'd make a bet that for most cafes, maybe not all, for every extra customer who uses the cafe because they let dogs in, there's another going somewhere else or eating a picnic or at home because they won't eat in a cafe with dogs in. Even cafes that allow dogs don't usually have many people in them with dogs, it would be unworkable if they did. I think the dog owning cafe users may be overestimating their value. And a whole swathe of Moslem people, as one example, could not use a cafe with a dog in it. Yes, yes, we all know there might be an assistance dog in there but they are pretty rare and an official assistance dog is always well trained. The last one I saw in a cafe was over 4 years ago.

The number of potential cafe users who want to take their dog into a cafe is far outweighed by the number of cafe users who either don't care (until they get a bad experience) or are actively against.

I have a suspicion that the decision is made most often on how much the owner/manager likes dogs.

Our supermarket cafe is a Starbucks now, I couldn't understand why they were letting in dogs because I thought supermarket cafes weren't supposed to.

It's a stupid decision as it's not the biggest place and I'm worried I'll trip up over an unexpected dog while carrying a hot drink. Besides the risk of scalding myself I'm really rubbish at fake apologies and which could be really awkward as I know lots of people that go there.

But hardly anywhere is dog free. Even supermarkets seem to let dogs in.

I have gone into cafes and gone straight out again as full of dogs.

I was in the pub yesterday and in the space of two hours I must have seen at least 15 dogs - walking past, at other tables, generally hanging out with their owners. Not a single one behaved badly. No jumping on tables, no harassment of humans, no unfortunate toilet incidents. Just a lot of very good boys and girls. All of the ones standing near the bar with their owners got pats from delighted passers-by, including me. The atmosphere was extremely friendly and pleasant.

Once again I'm going to say that all the horror stories in these threads about biting, leaping and pissing dogs in pubs and cafes are exaggerations or outright lies. That is not how 99% of dogs behave in public.

Don't you trust that owners conduct a proper risk assessment before setting their policies? If not, why would you want to go there in the first place?

I must admit I've never seen anything like biting or lunging or upending tables by dogs, I accept that it's quite rare for that to happen in a cafe or restaurant. I still get that some people are put off by the barking, smells, hygiene concerns and trip hazards though.

You can make a bet all you want but it's not your money, is it. The cafe owners are the ones making an actual bet - based on actual research and data, not just your assumptions - on their businesses doing better if dogs are welcome. Your custom is not as valuable to them as dog-owners' custom.

I think you're vastly overestimating the number of people who care that much about a dog being present that they'd go elsewhere.

Despite the fact that this thread is very polarised by it's nature, I would guess the vast majority of the public really don't care whether there's a dog in a café or not. It is not going to be the deciding factor for 90% of people on the street, dog owners or not. Especially if you are the only café on the street.

It is estimated that 36% - 41% of UK households own at least one dog.

Statistically therefore I would posit that there are vastly more people who are either happy or neutral about dogs being in cafe's than actively unhappy to the extent they would seek another venue.

I don't own a café but based on the numbers, allowing dogs would seem sensible. And I can certainly see how it would attract more business if you are in a rural area or near a park - anywhere that's popular with dog walkers.

OK.

Show me the research and data.

The hygiene concerns are weird. We ate in the pub. The food was brought from the kitchen (where there are no dogs) on trays to our table (where there are no dogs). The food didn't go anywhere near any dogs at any point.

I suspect that most of us have cut down on how often we eat out due to rising costs and the quality of the food either staying the same or getting worse as corners are cut. The dog thing strikes me as a bit of a gimmick that's working for now as being able to eat out with a dog is a bit of a novelty.

I have seen dogs lick tables at places. I'm not a germphobe at all especially by MN standards but I found that quite gross.

I'm not a cafe owner (or a dog owner). The evidence, for me, is that the majority of cafe owners have decided to make their cafes dog-friendly. Business owners tend not to make decisions that are bad for their profits so I assume being dog-friendly is good for their profits.

Given that you're the one bothered about this the onus is on you to provide research and data.

But I don't eat food off the table. My scotch egg came on a plate. The table would not be especially hygienic even if dogs were banned.

I live in a dog friendly town. Most places allow dogs, and I love dogs.

The amount of irresponsible owners is a pain in the arse though. Dogs that approach other dogs should be on a lead. Dogs that snap should be muzzled. Dogs that bite humans and can't be trained out of it need to be put down.

And the town is covered in shit.

I don't believe that data exists.

I also believe that most cafe owners make the decision based on whether they themselves like dogs.

I don't believe many cafe owners could show anyone the accounts from before they allowed dogs and the accounts after they allowed dogs.

Contrary to what I expect people are thinking, I've got no problem with clean quiet dogs under tables in cafes.

A child is a human and therefore should be allowed wherever they like. A dog is an pet. If they cannot be left alone at home whilst you visit a cafe for a drink because they are so poorly trained then you need to stay at home too. You cannot compare a dog to a child, however much you may want to compare them, they are not the same, they do not even belong in the same sentence. I hope people were nicer about you when you were a child.

You can believe what you like but it is utterly bizarre to assume that there's an epidemic of cafe owners up and down the country taking a decision that's actively bad for their businesses. It's a bit conspiracy theory tbh.

Feel free to challenge cafe owners on whether they're secretly losing money hand over fist because they've let dogs in, maybe you'll get the answers you want from them. Til then you just have to accept that they run their businesses in the manner they want for whatever reasons they have, and the fact that it doesn't suit you is neither here nor there.

There’re quite a few studies on this - although no single official study. Easily accessible on the internet. Apparently roughly 20% of people aren’t keen on dogs in eateries. Why do you think you know better than the owners who run places for profit?

I don't want to use a table that a dog had licked, at least not without a proper clean. Dog slobber isn't for me.

Does it matter if the data exists? If it is the cafe owners preference then that is enough of a reason anyway.

I don't think "the dog haters" would care so much if the dogs that were dragged everywhere were better behaved and trained. A well adjusted, socialised dog that can walk alongside it's owner and not be a nuisance doesn't bother me. But quite often you will see dogs in crowds, barking and lunging at other dogs, bothering people while eating etc and who is that fun for? Not the owners because they always look stressed, not the people on the receiving end of the poorly trained dog.

And it can be an absolute nightmare for people with service dogs too making their lives even harder than it is already.

I will never understand why any dog (outside of service dogs) need to be in a John Lewis or H&M though, it's bloody ridiculous. That's purely for the owner.

I don't.

I like hard data, there is none. I'd be very happy to see the accounts of a business showing the uplift after they allowed dogs in that they based their decision on. But until then it's all just the gut feeling of owner/managers who themselves like dogs around.

20%, by the by, if that figure is correct, is a huge proportion of your customers to disincentivise.