To wonder why teachers say they don’t have flexibility - isn’t this the solution?

[Greeao]

I could be being quite naive here but chatting away with friends this afternoon, two of whom
are teachers, they were saying they have no flexibility and ’literally can’t go to the doctor on a work day.’ This was in comparison to other jobs in the group which were office based.

Surely you can go to an appointment at 5pm or 6pm in some doctor surgeries? Then for dentist and non urgent care you’d go in the half terms or holidays?

Similarly I don’t understand the issue with schools plays etc, surely it’s feasible to go to some of these events as not all half terms and holidays are the same for all schools and not every event is in the day time. For instance at our local school play starts at 5pm.

It’s not a goady post, I was just reflecting on my drive home and perhaps I don’t get the industry?!

This is a bit of a misunderstanding. Scottish teachers teach 22.5 hours per week, very similar to England and Wales, but their working week is fixed at 35 hours (it was a battle over work life balance which they won - the idea being if it didn’t get done in that 35 hours it wouldn’t have to be. I doubt that’s how it works in practice, but hope it is). So the 12.5 hours are largely outside the time pupils are in school. It’s a different system. She still won’t be able to leave or answer a phone during the teaching time.

I think this is key isn't it? The working world has changed post COVID yet teaching hasn't, because you can't make it any more flexible.

Nobody is saying otherwise.

You are missing the point completely. By your reckoning teachers should squeeze appts into the one hour of spare personal time they have between finishing a day's teaching and marking and all the other stuff they have to do, and going home to squeeze in time with their families before doing more work in the evening. Whereas employees in a lot of other industries will have the flexibility to ask their boss if they can come in late or go home early for a GP appt.

Yes, I have never heard of a state primary that does plays outside school hours. And our GP doesn't offer appointments after 5, so given most staff are at school until well after pick up time, and then probably have to travel a certain distance to their GP (doubt most staff have their home/GP very close to their school), it would be very difficult-and that's not counting all the meetings/prep work etc they need to do. A friend who's just started dating a teacher said she was working on displays and prep nearly every night.
Online schools might well be more flexible, but I don't know of any state schools that are online FT.

The fact people are suggesting teachers can … call in their lunch breaks, get to a 5pm appointment, pop out to make a phone call etc Just highlights that people have a limited awareness of the role. That’s fine I don’t understand the ins and outs of others jobs. What I do find odd is people always being so keen to comment on teachers hours etc You’d rarely get a thread discussing the flexibility etc of other professions. I love my job and I really appreciate the 13 weeks holiday (some of which I obviously work during) but it is not a job that can be flexible, certainly not in primary anyway.

Do you think maybe they might know about their own lives?

Teachers are never going to admit they have flexibility, even when they do. Even when they have the same holidays as the kids - They'll scream they do not have holiday's. I'm not saying they don't have it hard, because they have a tough job to do...but they do have flexibility.

Same day appointments at my GP are arranged at 8am and then there is no choice of time🤷‍♂️. Not possible as a teacher.

It's not just teachers, my dd who had a driving test booked before starting as a TA wasn't allowed time off, her friend got married at Feb half term on the Saturday but wasn't allowed the Friday afternoon off. Working in education is one of the least flexible jobs in my opinion. All those I know and have worked with have to be in school 8am so can't even drop kids at their breakfast clubs, often don't get chance for lunch, and find it difficult to ring the doctors never mind d go to an appointment. A friend was refused to attend a pre op, I could go on and on. Not everything can happen evenings and weekends, but we would try for those when possible as it's easier than setting work for an absence which you have to do before 7.30am. And disrupting pupils routine.

Getting a five o clock appointment isn’t the same as getting eg a Tuesday appointment. Not a teacher but on what planet do they have any flexibility? Whenever a teacher isn’t in in my son’s school it’s a huge deal

Yep - at the end of term I was really, really unwell (still am) but dragged myself in because I had a light teaching day. One of my colleagues went home sick at break time so I was then used to cover her classes in my frees.

With regards to the main topic of the post - I am lucky to work in a school that tries to help us to work flexibly. If someone needs to go to an appointment, the culture is that others try to step in to help, but there are limits and none of us want to take the piss with somebody else’s time when we are all so time-poor.

It’s not the kind of job where you can just say, hey kids, no lesson today because I want to go to my daughter’s sports day? But equally, I would never assume that someone else is able to be fully flexible either. I guess the big difference is we can’t book a day’s leave outside of the school holidays - or in the examples someone else said about weddings, funerals etc, often if these are granted, it’s unpaid. But then there are loads of other industries where people can’t always book holiday when they want it - retail in the run up to Christmas springs to mind.

TL;DR: You can only flex as far as someone else can do the job in your place, and other jobs also have restrictions too.

You’d have to call at 8.30am, so can’t do that during the week…
Then hope there is a 6pm appointment available AND that I don’t have training/safeguarding/after school
event to attend.
It really isn’t flexible.

You are naive.

Most teachers work in the same county as their kids so that holidays align

Virtually no GPS offer prevookabke appointments where I live, everything is call at 8am and hope for the best.

None of our local schools do plays in an evening, they all take place during the school day because quite frankly staff are not paid outside of achool hours so why should they work?

I'm a teacher and it really is nowhere near as flexible as my DHs work. I never get to do drop offs, manage to collect once maybe twice a week. My DD is in nursery but have never got to do any of their Christmas events or celebration of learning things. DH has also done the majority of sock days. I actually had to take a whole day off for child a couple of weeks ago and was given a lot of grief about it from my head despite the fact that my DH has already taken 3 days off for the illness. The small allowance of flexibility I have had to use for my child actually development meetings which is one on one with her key worker. I feel like I have been very absent for a lot of my child's events whereas DH has been the parent to show up for them.

My friends with kids also seem to have more flexibility/understanding when it comes to sick kids/school events. Their experience align much more with DH situation rather than mine, they can do 50/50 with partners, the only exceptions are friends who work for NHS.

I couldn't imagine coming to social media to belittle something my friends said they found difficult in their profession. I kind of hope this is rage bait and you don't actually know any teachers because it's a shame for your 'friends' if this is how you treat them.

My surgery works like this: fill in e-consult. Can't be done before 8 am. I'd have left for work at 7.30 (was a teacher). Surgery then triages e-consults and rings to make appointment for F to F or phone conversation. I can't answer the phone randomly. I'm at work.
If I can answer the phone and get an appointment, it will be late morning as that's the timeslot they leave for emergencies. It's not easy.

Most of us used half term for Dr, dentist, haircut, optician. Not exciting use of free time but necessary.

I was a primary teacher for 21 years - now I'm a self-employed SEND/EOTAS tutor.
I can now do so much more with my 5 yo than I could do with my older children. I can take her to school, pick her up occasionally, go to hear her read, see concerts/nativity plays, support at sports days etc. All of these things were not possible when I was a teacher.
I can also make doctor and dentist appointments for myself far, far more easily and don't feel feel guilty about taking time off to so.
To add, I'm ridiculously excited to be going on a little abroad holiday soon - in school time - with my husband. This will literally be the first time in my 45 years I have ever taken a holiday outside of school holidays. And I can't believe how much cheaper it is!
So you've probably guessed it - I don't regret leaving teaching!! 😀

The reality for many of us is to even get a GP appointment you need to phone at a time in the morning when you are already working and no opportunity to phone so impossible to even book one. It's particularly difficult for things such as weddings etc with most heads only allowing the time out for immediate family. I have missed many a wedding ceremony. Obviously other jobs have difficulties too. Just sharing my experience.

wait where?

You either think you're being funny or haven't put any thought into that.

I need a doctor's appointment I get be of the following...

1. A text message saying they will phone in a three hour interval (and in real terms it can be up to an hour either side too)
2. Be put through to a page to click on an appointment. I have never seen these anything but consecutive and never more than six alternatives

Yes schools do have different holidays and inset days, but firstly they tend to be pretty similar if you're in the same council, but even if you're not, you're not talking about more than 10 days different really. And what you're saying us that you think the school should arrange assemblies, meet the teacher, sports days, Christmas play etc into those 10 days? And inset days often the teachers have to be in.

So headteacher, please can you tell me why my Dc's class has their Nativity in the morning and sports' day in the afternoon on the 13th February?
Well you see in their form, little Julie's mum is a teacher and that's an inset day for her school so the only day they can make...

Where do you live??? In my area you are lucky if you get any appointment at all.

I am a teacher. Plenty of colleagues go out regularly for medical appointments. Of course you can go to the doctor during the school day. You have to request it but they can't refuse. I guess if you are part-time, they could say go on your day off. Dental check ups - in school holidays; dental emergencies- okay to go in school time.

What rubbish.

Inflammatory and lazy word choice. Why are teachers screaming when they are just explaining their own experience?

This thread is about job flexibility, not holidays.

A lot of the flexibility depends on your school and headteacher. I am not in England, and my HT is generally flexible and reasonable.
YABU about doctors appointments and possibly being purposefully disingenuous about this. You can't just "ask" for a 6pm appointment in a lot of surgeries. My GP is triage only so I need to phone at 8am (when I am taking my own kids to breakfast club and going to work). You then get a phone call during the day (when you might be teaching) and they may or may not ask you to come to the surgery (when you are already in work and teaching). No advance appointments at all. So for stuff that is semi urgent but not an emergency you really need to plan a sick day. I'm sure you can work out why that might be a bit tricky?
Same with dentists - yes you can go during the holidays but it ends up being a huge amount of forward planning.
My own kids assemblies etc are during the school day, I've never really heard of stuff being in the evening.

Teaching is not the only inflexible job, but it is inflexible during term time, and it's hard not to draw comparisons with other jobs which have become more flexible.