For supporting my autistic child's decision and blowing up my own friendship?

[Tryinghardtobefair]

Asking for opinions because I'm Neurodivergent and unsure if IABU

My daughter ended a friendship. I was best friends with the other child's mum. I'll call her Jane. We are no longer friends.

Both girls are the same age (early secondary). Both are autistic. DDs friend is incredibly rigid and everything the girls do is always catered to her wants and needs because she "can't cope or engage" if she doesn't 100% want to do something or if she doesn't get her own way. DD is quite flexible with friends and is big on fairness and compromise.

DDs friends reaction to anyone saying this is unfair is: "I don't want to be your friend" because she can't cope if she doesn't get her own way.

Jane usually messages me when the girls fall out, gets defensive, and says ending the friendship is for the best because this is how friend is and DD shouldn't want her to change as a condition of friendship. A few days later Jane calms down, messages and accepts friends behaviour is actually the issue and says "they've spoken and she would like to apologise to DD". This has happened for years. Jane is also adamant that this level of drama is normal because all friends relationships are like this. In comparison I can't remember the last argument DD had with a different friend.

Everything came to a head the other day because Friend had been reading DDs messages and leaving her "on read". After a few days DD became upset by this and asked her not to and asked if she's done something to upset friend. Friend said DD hasn't done anything wrong and she ignored her when she was busy because texting overwhelmed her. DD asked friend to not open the message if she couldn't reply or just send "busy" so she knew. Friend left her on read.

DD saw her on Roblox and went into the game to confront her. She pointed out that if she could come off her game to read the text she could write the word "busy". DDs friend text DD to go away and stop texting because it's overwhelming her. DD responded, they went back and forth. Friend then eventually told DD she doesn't want to be friends because she won't go away so DD said fine because friend is selfish and doesn't care about DDs feelings. DD blocked friend on everything and deleted her number.

I messaged Jane to give her a heads up. She responded:

"Yeah I'm aware, [Friend] did tell her she's busy but unfortunately she carried on texting asking what shes doing , followed by a ? Then an emoji when she didnt get an immediate response.
[Friend] can not cope either with her constant texts and it overwhelms her hence why she don't reply, she did text her last night and again this morning to reasure her shes done nothing wrong.

But thats fine, its probably for the best in all fairness."

Having supervised DD while she was texting I responded :

"Actually I saw the texts. She didn't text constantly. She said [Friend] can't be that busy if she's on Roblox and her texts sent early so she was finishing sentences. Please don't twist the truth.

Tbh I agree it's probably for the best. I completely support [DD's] decision because the constant expectation of [DD] to meet [friends] needs and respect her boundaries ("stop texting "), while refusing to meet [DDs] needs (not to be left on read because it upsets her), is quite unfair and sets an unbalanced dynamic.

I'm sure the girls will be fine on their own paths."

Jane left me on read, blocked me on WhatsApp and keeps posting memes about how she doesn't trust people who don't understand her autistic child.

I'm sorry this is so long and seems like a completely minor thing, but now DD and I are out of the constant drama I need the sanity check that I wasn't unreasonable to say what I said.

You can see in messaging apps when the other person has opened a message, so if they've opened it and not replied that would be "on read". This shows differently to if they haven't checked their phone.

Generally I read all messages as soon as I get the notification, in case it's urgent, but if I read it and it's just someone wanting to chat, I'll leave it until I finish what I'm doing and have time to give the conversation my full attention. Aparently this is a heinous crime amongst young people.

They have conflicting needs and aren't compatible as friends, that's fine. I think you and the other mum are overly involved. I understand that to a certain extent as they are autistic so will need more guidance on navigating relationships but it's best just sticking to advising you own DD's on what's appropriate rather than messaging each other.
I do think you need to speak to your DD about how people can be overwhelmed by different things, being overwhelmed at the thought of socialising via text isn't unusual, even for ND people when they're stressed. Many people could play a game but not have the ability to text, it takes a lot for some people to figure out what to say and they can have mental blocks preventing them from knowing what to say, or if they're feeling a certain way they may know their communication at them times is poor and could cause fall outs so it's best they don't communicate in that moment. I'm not saying your DD has to put up with this if it's upsetting for her, she doesn't have to be friends with anyone and being flexible and understanding other's needs as an autistic 12 yo will be difficult, but it will help her in the future if she learns to better understand people have different needs and manage her emotions when they are not acting how she expects them to.

You don't want to hear that your DD played a part here. She did. They both did. The friendship is too high drama and your DD is within her rights to end it, you shouldn't have messaged Jane, you escalated things and by being defensive of your own child you created conflict with Jane that could have been avoided. You're all over sensitive and frankly a bit childish (the girls have an excuse, you and Jane do not)

Yanbu to support your DD in a minor fall out, regardless of whether she is equally difficult. Of course as parents we have our DC back in these situations (which does mean letting them know when they have played a part in it)

You and the other parent are VU for getting involved in petty dramas.

You wont do your DD any favours if you allow her to believe she was completely blameless here.

DD does know this. She has zero issues with other friends. As I've specified previously, this incident only happened with this friend because said friend has built an expectation that DD should drop everything to reply when friend wants her to. However when DD asserts those same expectations (like in this incident), friend can't cope with DD holding her to the same standards that she has for DD. Friend also can't cope with being ignored, to the point I have numerous texts from Jane about friend having violent meltdowns because DD didn't reply.
In 2 years this is the only time DD has confronted friend because she's exhausted by it all.

We've never had any issues with any other friends. All friends (including DD), go to school full time and attend multiple clubs so often go days without speaking. DD is fine with this because it's an equal dynamic, and those friends don't expect more from her than they're willing to give themselves.

Sounds like Jane wants everything her daughter’s way but no consideration for a fellow autistic child, overwhelmed seems to be trotted out as an excuse for rudeness.
Your DD will make new friends.

Yes. Good idea to focus on other friends and tell them to sort stuff out between themselves. The teenage squabbles are yet to hit in full force and you need to minimise the drama not add to the noise

So you need to teach DD not to jump when her friend says so.

If your DD doesn’t want to reply that’s fine.
It is up to her friends who she’s leaving on read to decide whether they want to continue the friendship with her.

She needs to learn that she cannot control other peoples actions, all she can control is how she reacts to them.

You and the other mum are way too involved.

Whilst I understand you’re both protective of your children, I think you’re way too invested in your daughter’s friendships. You should absolutely support and guide her but messaging other parents really isn’t needed in these situations.

Stand back and let your DD guide the way. They’re just young kids navigating friendships, if it’s ended, that’s fine. It doesn’t sound like a healthy friendship.

It’s usually a bad idea to have these sorts of enmeshed relationships as you hit teenage years for exactly this reason. My daughter is autistic so a bit slower to launch in some ways but I have stepped way back as she’s 13 now. She needs to learn how to navigate these things though of course I’m always here as a sounding board.

This friendship sounds toxic and both girls are well out of it. Would be good for you to start stepping back a bit now too - am flabbergasted that you’re reading every message that comes in for a teenager to be honest.

Completely unreasonable to get your friendship so enmeshed in that of your child.

Hi OP. I understand why you did it, but you were unreasonable to message Jane about it at all. Of course, you can support your DD to manage her friendships if she needs that support, but I’d advise for the future that you don’t get involved to the extent that you’re messaging the other child’s mother about it.

My best friend’s son is very good friends with my DS. Sometimes they fall out. Our attitude to it is that our friendship is really separate from the children’s. If they were to drift apart, we’d still be best mates. Why wouldn’t we?

Our kids our younger but we don’t really discuss their disagreements, beyond ‘kids, eh?’ Because most of the time, disagreements are either 50:50 in terms of fault OR simply a mismatch in terms of wants/needs and nobody’s fault really. If they’re not getting on, we just see each other without the kids for a while so they can get some space.

It sounds like a bit of a similar situation with the kids in your scenario. Neither can help that their needs often conflict. Your DD was far too intense following her friend onto Roblox when she’d already been told the friend was overwhelmed but she’d done nothing wrong (I thought this explanation from your friend’s DD was actually quite mature and sounds like progress based on the descriptions you give of her previous behaviour). Conversely, it’s clear that your DD has had to tolerate the other girl insisting on her own way a lot, and I dont blame her for deciding she’s not putting up with it any more. But I’m not sure why that means you and Jane can’t be friends?

I can see that possibly Jane would insist on wanting to talk it out with you because that’s what you’ve always done in the past. But if you were otherwise good friends, could you just say something like ‘clearly the girls aren’t getting along, their needs seem to conflict which is nobody’s fault. It might be better for them to cool things off, but would love to continue our friendship anyway.’

I've been very very clear this is NOT how she deals with a situation in her other friendships - that all thankfully have equal dynamics.

However I do believe she's blameless under these circumstances because friend has spent the entire friendship expecting DD to drop everything at her beck and call so DD was essentially upset friend doesn't hold her own standards of friendship to herself.

We've spoken extensively about why this friendship was different compared to her other friendships, whether it felt good or bad, whether it was healthy for her emotionally etc. We've spoken about why it wasn't and explored why she stayed friends for for so long.

We've never had issues with other friends, and DD has never double texted anyone else or confronted them over being ignored.. but I gave her some different scenarios of a friend not replying to her messages or answering a call and she's also shown that she has a good understanding of appropriate contact. Which I knew already but it's always good to check.

You should have put she was left on read for two DAYS in your OP people are acting like she sent multiple messages and harassing demands within minutes of being left on read

Yes DD clearly got irritated and took it to roblox not their finest hour but neither is the other child sending 32 messages after being told no ultimately I think this friendship has had its day dont let the mum weasel their way back and convince dd to do the same because on balance this is not a good relationship for anyone

Kindly OP, you are giving this all too much head space. Sounds like the friendship was done anyway and your DD has other more positive relationships with other friends and much less drama. Move on and leave the other parent blocked too.

I think it's better your daughter is no longer friends with this girl. I understand that autism can make a person rigid in their thinking but surely the Mum should be trying to teach her daughter strategies to help her cope, when others don't want to follow her rigidness or do what she wants??

If the girl is expecting to sail through life with everyone doing as she asks and when, then she's going to get a damn big shock!! Children simply won't want to be her friend, and the older she becomes the wider that gap will be.

It sounds like your daughter has a good balance, and is capable of making friends. Encourage her to pursue other friendships, and permanently step away from this one!!

Take a big sigh of relief!!

Bang on. I think there has been a lot of pandering to these girls behaviours which is going to do none of them any favours when entering the adult world.

Completely correct

sounds pathetic.

I think the comments saying op's dd's conduct is just as bad are unfair, especially given her further context about the friend also sending a barrage of messages and flipping out when not getting a quick response.

Given the friends extreme rigidity and expecting everything on her terms, I don't think the friendship should continue and her mom is enabling her.

The "being friends with fellow ND people" can work both ways. My adult autistic friend definitely has other autistic friends but found it easier to get along with NT as a young adult.

The friendship sounds like far too much drama so probably better that it’s ended.

That said, having a go at someone for not replying the messages isn’t ok. Going through another platform to accuse them of having time to play games so they should be able to reply to messages is REALLY not ok.

I am neurodivergent and don’t always reply to messages. Sometimes it’s because I need time to compose a more thought out response or I’ve read it whilst in the middle of something and can’t immediately reply. Sometimes it’s because I’m just feeling really stressed out and overwhelmed and need a bit of space.

The lesson for DD here is not to take it personally when people don’t reply to messages and not to harass them about it. If a friend is causing drama or neglecting her generally then the best thing is to step away and find other friends she is better suited to.

Hi - I messaged Jane because it's been the norm to support the girls in working through their disagreements.whenever the girls have had a disagreement. Jane usually messages first relaying what happened and gets defensive because she feels friends needs aren't understood and that DD wants her to change.

This isn't the case at all. The issue is that friend will often become quite nasty, accuse DD or guilt tripping, hang up on her or declare she doesn't want to be friends because DD has pushed back and said it's not fair that she gets no say at all in anything. DD doesn't want friends personality to change, just her behaviour towards DD.

I messaged first this time because friend usually calms down and wants to be friends with DD again. But DD is absolutely done and never wants to speak again. I wanted to make it clear the friendship was over and give Jane the chance to talk through the blocking and the end of the friendship with Friend before she discovered by chance that she's blocked on everything. Friend is prone to violent meltdowns so I wanted to at least give Jane the chance to prevent this.

I do recognise my DDs faults and the few other disagreements she has with friends are 50:50. But this one wasn't. Friend would have absolutely kicked off if DD left her on read without saying she was busy, and would have done exactly the same to DD. The only reason I don't feel she was too intense is because she was literally doing what friend would do to her with the logic that "if friend expects me to reply instantly then she can reply if she's online". In normal circumstances I would feel it's OTT, but in this case she did what the norm has always been. DDs friend has also got form for saying she's overwhelmed to get out of things she doesn't want to do. I've heard her tell DD "I don't want to go to school tomorrow so I'm going to be too overwhelmed". So I do understand why DD did what she did.

DD has never behaved like this with any other child, she goes days without getting a reply if her friends are busy, and they can go days without a reply if DD is busy. She's actually got a really good understanding of appropriate contact and texting as hard as it is to believe looking at this incident.

We've done a lot of work on social boundaries over the years, and there are a lot of phone boundaries in general. DDs phone is checked at least once a day, is locked in evening hours, and it is removed if she breaks any of the rules we've established. We also have very clear expectations about behaviour towards others in general.

The reason my friendship is over is because Jane has ultimately cut me off as she feels that anyone who "criticises" her child's behaviour doesn't understand her child and isn't neuro-affirmative. She cuts off anyone who says anything that isn't positive about her child. I do understand her childs needs, I just won't allow my daughter to accommodate another person's needs at the cost of her own needs and wellbeing.

Sorry for the long reply, I didn't want to miss anything.

You’re all doing far too much, especially the adults.

Well, it’s over now.

Nobody is friends with anybody.

Answer the question I asked (which was was I unreasonable for supporting DDs choice to end the friendship)

What could possibly be unreasonable about it?

You should be raising your DD thst she can end a relationship (platonic or otherwise) for any reason.

This has very clearly been a deeply unhealthy friendship for a long time. I voted YABU because I don’t understand why you haven’t ended/limited the relationship well before now.

Any child who sent my DD 32 messages complaining that she had gone out would have had very short shrift.

The issue isn’t are you unreasonable for supporting her to end the relationship now, the issue is why on Earth haven't you done it sooner.

BTW your DD is in no way reasonable demanding a response to every message she sends. You need to work with her on accepting being “left on read”. Demanding a response is controlling and inappropriate behaviour, better she correct it now.