AIBU to think female sports categories should apply at all levels not just the olympics?

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In light of the welcome news that biological males or people with SRY (Y) gene are no longer allowed to compete in the women’s category in the Olympics, AIBU to think that it shouldn’t only be elite sports women who should have fairness and safety in sport?

AIBU to think that all women and girls deserve the protected female category for both fairness and safety from grass roots sport to county level and beyond.

I mean, what is the point of having separate categories, which are there for biological differences if anyone can self identify into them.

I have an U16 DD who competes at a national level in athletics. England Athletics are very clear that the female category is for biological women. The level she competes at means she has to agree to being dope tested if asked, but it’s never actually happened. I don’t think the funding is there even at National level junior competitions. That said, I’ve never actually had a situation where I’ve questioned the sex of any of her competitors, they are all clearly female, and she’s been competing against the same girls for many years now. I do agree though OP, like most women, this should be something from grass roots up.

Some sports do already have similar rules for non-elite competition, but don't feel the need to make a big song and dance about it. For example most* rowing events in the UK are split into "women" and "open", although the open category is often labelled 'men'. To row in a women's race, you must be biologically female. Anyone can row in open. DH and I have both been in "open" races where women rowed.
Having a woman in the crew is not usually a physical advantage, and so is slower and a bugger to steer, but it allows 7 blokes to make up to 8 for a race, so no one really pays much it attention when it happens.
*Private fixtures between e.g. two rival clubs can make up whatever rules they like so I have no information on that.

Just in case anyone wants to see links to studies and papers and expert discussion about female sports categories, here is a thread that is only for those links (ie. not a discussion thread)

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5142027-save-female-sports-evidence-thread?page=1

This!!! We don't breathalyze every driver, we expect them to drive without drinking. The idea that these men are telling us that they will continue to trample over women's rights tells you everything you need to know about them.

DD plays rugby... its very clear that from U12 level (Yr7) its Single sex. Sometimes girls can apply to play in boys for another year, but thats the absolute limit.

Of course you’re right, OP. The IOC decision is very welcome (and long overdue), but the same rules need to apply at all levels of sport.

As you say, if you’re going to have separate categories in the first place, the only reasonable thing to base those categories on is actual sex - not “identity”, or a piece of paper. Just as lesbians aren’t attracted to a piece of paper, as the Supreme Court acknowledged, sport isn’t played by a piece of paper, but by a body whose sex is immutable.

Apart from the obvious reasons of fairness and safety (which women and girls deserve just as much as men and boys, at all levels), grassroots sports play an essential part in the development of the elite athletes of the future.

If girls are having to compete against or get changed in front of boys at that level, it’s potentially putting them off and excluding them from the get go, and denying them opportunities they might otherwise have taken to develop further. So it has a knock on effect on other levels of sport too.

I think with all of the doping in sports you’re asking a lot for honesty in self declaration.

I’m a female Olympic athlete, I feel I have skin in the game, although I’m not competing anymore. Once an Olympian Always an Olympian, and all that. I’m completely behind Sharron Davies et al, but I know how much cheating goes on at all levels. Funding for grassroots level sports is very sparse. Anyone can just say whatever they want. As they move through the ranks to a higher level then money is more available and testing can happen. Actually testing for “female” has happened at the Olympics and commonwealths etc since the 70s, however basic it was at the time. I had swabs taken before being allowed to compete when I was there. I always used to joke with DH that he could be assured I was female as I have certificates to say I am, lol

And the heels were really dug in on Park run, despite the timings being ranked by sex the entrants were not categorised by sex.

I’m intrigued what the people who said I was being unreasonable think.

Do they really think that men and boys should be allowed in girls and women’s sports?

I’d image the IOC had to fully explain or they’d have even more of a backlash than they already have.

The push back for fairness in sport is insane.

I doubt we'll ever get to a place where we perform sex testing at grassroots level, but I am hoping that the attitude of biological sex over gender identity trickles down and it comes socially unacceptable to claim to be a woman if you're a man - like it used to be!

I don't like the way parkrun side-stepped the issue by taking off course records and other performance data, but the reality was that it was before trans-rights had peaked and the supreme court ruling.

It's a relatively informal organisation and just isn't viable for the core team of volunteers to handle sex/ gender discrepancies amongst hundreds of participants which wouldn't be clear until after the event when the results are published. It would take it being an HQ issue to manage correcting course records, but they're very remote from the participants to be able to check if they haven't reported their sex correctly.

I've seen a pro athlete running at her parkrun record setting pace. However she did not hold that course record and was being paced with male club team mates who were undoubtably good, but not elite like her. It's a major performance gap and I'm glad that influential bodies like the OC are finally catching up to reality, and that bodes well for other grassroots, amateur bodies to follow, but parkrun is too remote and casual to do much other than rely on 99+% of participants having integrity. Hopefully a shift at professional levels will help manage entitlement at the base... maybe...

"A trans athlete who 'smashed to smithereens' a women's Parkrun record in the 45-49 age group category is today revealed as Siân Longthorpe - who was living as a married man until just over four years ago.
Ms Longthorpe completed last weekend's Porthcawl Parkrun in a record 18 minutes and 53 seconds on Saturday – a full one minute and 13 seconds ahead of her closest rival Deb Roberts.
The outcome of that race in West Wales on Saturday came to national attention today when the result was cited by Mara Yamauchi, a former British Olympian, as an example of what she believes is the exclusion of women athletes and their achievements in the name of being 'inclusive'.
news report 2023

How is this inclusive?

But if they don’t stipulate that the women’s category is for women then most men who identify as women will race with women.

If they stipulate that bio men can’t enter as women but can dress and identify as they like during the run then most would enter the right category.

As someone upthread said, drink driving is illegal, it doesn’t stop everyone but it stops most.

A man who is is prison for the attempted murder of a UK Athletics official is still recorded on parkrun records as the holder of the female course record at the Aberystwyth parkrun in Wales.

do you have a link for this @spannasaurus

I wonder how their crime is recorded?

Except the new app has all the course records etc on it.

With Parkrun, it could have a brilliant way fir Transgender athletes to have their own league. Each course having a handicap score,, then them all competing each week in their own location.

Link to BBC report about Jeska

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-39266777

But why would they need their own league when they are either male or female.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/23/transgender-murder-parkrun/

Telegraph report mentioning the park run record

Trans woman injures woman

in football

Because it’s not just trans women thst need to be considered, trans men who are women who have transitioned need to not compete against women too. They’re usually picked up in doping tests, but we know that doesn’t happen at park run level.

But then those trans men (women) would be competing with trans women (men).

Makes no sense.

Transmen can compete in the female category as long as they aren't using testosterone. They're were a couple of trans/nb females competing at the last Olympics in the female category