Will antisemitism ever be looked at and dealt with in the same way as Islamophobia is?

[LucyWestenra]

AIBU for thinking it won’t? Because it doesn’t seem to be the case in this country or my home country (Germany).

(I just googled because it didn’t seem right to have antisemitism in lower capitals, but apparently that is correct, as I thought)

Much love to the Jewish community, wherever they are.

❤️

You make a good point. then why is there a definition of antisemitism needed?

Don’t be absurd. People hate what the Israeli government is doing and has done in Gaza and the Lebanon. Has fuck all to do with antisemitism.

Haven’t rtft, the first page was enough for me.

i suppose it depends wha circles you move in/what algorithms you’re on. My social media seems to be full of Islamophobia, most notably halal meat hatred at the moment. Which is never a rational discussion about slaughter practices, but an excuse for people to joke about bacon and call Muslims all sorts of names. I imagine I end up with these becuase I usually end up wading in and attempting to insert some facts.

Conversely I’ve never seen a group dedicated to the hatred of Jewish people on any of my social media platforms. So whether that means they don’t exist, or whether I’ve just been lucky enough to not come across them I don’t know.

But I certainly wouldn’t say Islamophobia is less prevalent.

If only I were so naive and blinkered to believe that.
So all the recent rise in antisemitism is just imagined? Jews making it all up or exaggerating and playing victim?

I'm shocked at the level of hatred/dislike directed at Israel right now, normal voters, not some right wing nut jobs.

The blame for the killings of kids, the elderly and now the knock on affects of high fuel prices and inflation, all placed on Israel and hence the jews.

These aren't people who would do anything violent but there will be plenty who will.

Driving antisemitism more generally

I don’t think most normal people conflate the two. I really hate the Israeli government and do blame them for all the things listed, but their race/ethnicity doesn’t play into that for me. I don’t think they’re behaving badly BECAUSE they’re Jewish and understand they don’t represent the actions and thoughts of anyone else purely because they’re share the same race.

yes there will be the hard of thinking that don’t understand that, but then that happens with Islamophobia too. Bad eggs will tell you how all Muslims are terrorists or painfully butcher animals or approve of child rape.

Exactly this 👆

At a risk of derailing the thread, what is Israel supposed to do? They have been attacked time after time after time by its neighbours with the stated intention of pushing them into the sea. After the horrors of 7/10, Hezbollah rockets were flying in from south Lebanon.

If Iran via its proxy’s cease fire then there is peace. If Israel stops fighting, Hamas, hezbollah et al wipe the population off the map. And they won’t let that happen. Nor should they.

If war was genuinely unavoidable, then it still has to be conducted within international humanitarian law. That means distinction, proportionality and accountability.

The issue people are raising isn’t whether Israel had a right to defend itself, it’s whether the way it’s doing so has repeatedly crossed those legal and moral lines.

Even in the face of horrific attacks, there are still rules.

I never said they did.
What i'm saying is Israeli actions are seen widely as wrong and this gives succor to the antisemites.

The increases in antisemitism has to have a root cause.

But of course, atm its a very small minority, i just hope it stays that way.

Good point. And given that last century there was a determined (and nearly successful) attempt to eradicate every Jew resulting in the deaths of 2 in 3 European Jews and even today one particular group is still threatening to eradicate them, I think they deserve every legal protection they can get.

It would be interesting to know what actual harm to followers of Islam our government is trying to prevent that is not already covered by existing law and why. It would also be interesting to understand why they seem totally unbothered with discrimination against other religions like Christianity.

You said “all placed on Israel and hence the jews.”

so yes, you definitely did say people are conflating the two.

What protections would you like to see for Jewish people that aren’t covered under the existing law?

If you blame Israel, its pretty obvious you re also blaming the people of Israel, who are in the main, supportive of actions in Gaza Iran and Lebanon.... its not Netahyahu doing the actual killing in Lebanon etc, its 10s of 1000s of Jewish soldiers and pilots.

But that is not the same as (normal people) blaming Jews who live in the UK.

Not really. Saying I explicitly blame the government for something doesn’t equate to me blaming citizens of that country at all. Military service in Israel is mandatory, so choices are serve or be imprisoned. I don’t blame people for doing what they feel they have to in terms of serving in the army. I do blame the soldiers who chose to behave badly in that role. But I apply that to any soldier, not exclusively Jewish ones 🤷🏻‍♀️ I didn’t blame all white women for the actions of Lynndie England for example.

I don’t blame the citizens of North Korea for Kim Jong Un’s choices? I don’t blame the citizens of the UK for Kier Starmer’s choices. So that argument holds no weight for me.

Of course some Israeli's will agree with their government but the point I’ve made (I thought fairly clearly) was that I don’t blame their Jewish ethnicity for their choices. And by extension I don’t therefore assume I must hate all Jewish people becuase some behave in a way I don’t approve of.

and as I already said, you will always get idiots that can’t seperate someone’s skin colour, religion or any other feature from their actions. But that happens to Muslims too, which is why I don’t believe one group has an easier time of it at all over the other.

But without being deep in the detail, is it so straightforward to determine what ‘defending itself’ look like?

I think part of the critical view of the Israeli governments actions has been driven by the blatant lies and hugely biased reporting by the BBC. We don’t know the full truth of what’s going on.

For clarity, I am not defending the Israeli government or saying that they haven’t done everything they have done. I do however think we’ve been lied to about what they’ve done and I also wonder what people think they should do? They can’t just stop fighting against Hamas, they will get obliterated.

Hamas don’t want to find a peaceful
solution, they want to eradicate Jews. They spent the billions of international aid given to them building tunnels and infrastructure to use their citizens as human shields. They form part of Irans ‘ring of fire’ strategy to destroy Israel. What is the solution that we are expecting Israel to find?

Obviously we need to scrutinise the actions of the Israeli government but where is the scrutiny of Hamas or Iran? It feels like so many people criticising Israel have only part of the story.

Hamas are a proscribed terrorist organisation. I’m not sure we should be holding sovereign countries to the same standards should we?

and I totally agree that “we don’t know the full truth of what’s going on”…perhaps if Israel let some international press into Gaza, we might be able to get more of an idea?

I haven’t said I think they need any further protections. I think the protections they have are justified.

But they are a proscribed terrorist organisation working with Iran to destroy Israel completely. I think some scrutiny of what they are doing is justified. We can’t just say ‘oh they are terrorists’ and leave them to get on with it. We need to highlight the issues.

Lots of people seem to have forgotten what they have done or don’t understand and even declare support for them in this country. There a lot more to it than just ‘they’re terrorists, what can you do?’

I’m absolutely not saying leave them to get on with it, sorry that was probably badly expressed on my part.

They need to be dealt with. I just struggle to believe that anyone thinks that every single action taken in pursuit of achieving this by Israel’s government - has been unavoidable and the best course of action.

I’ve definitely not seen any support for Hamas in this country, perhaps bar the odd headline grabber like the three women in the T-shirts early in the latest conflict. Certainly
everyone I know in real life agrees that they’re bad actors but we can also distinguish that not all Gazans are in support of them and certainly don’t deserve the effects of this sustained collective punishment.

And just to clarify, Hamas also government of Gaza, so terrorists or not, I think a bit more international scrutiny is warranted instead of the light skating over the surface by orgs like the BBC while laser focused on every wrong, real or made up, attributed to Israel.

What about the USSR's 'right to exist'? What about, what about, WHAT ABOUT all those other countries that now no longer exist? Why does one feckin country, formed in 1948(?) have more right to exist than any other neighbouring country??? Why do millions have to be slaughtered in the name of the so called biblical 'chosen people'? Utter lunacy. Who actually supports genocide/holocaust? The Vatican does not. Not one decent person or organisation supports this.
This does not make an individual or organisation or country anti Jewish! It makes you pro human.

That didn’t need clarification, I know they’re the government of Gaza, that doesn’t mean much does it given there hasn’t been an election in two decades.

You think the BBC hyper focus exclusively on the wrongs of Israel?!

Well a group of Jews fresh from an attempt to exterminate them says they have a right to exist. And they have a cutting edge powerful armed forces and nuclear weapons. And they will defend that right to the death from nations and terrorists trying to exterminate them once more. And no Palestine obsessed useful idiots wafting a flag about in London yapping “river to the sea” will change that.