Is MN feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men?

[Grtscott]

Some threads I've read this morning have helped me to realise that my thinking about men has changed since joining MN. And not in a good way.

There's an undertone that men need to do things the woman's way, or it's wrong. That men should be grateful for any sex that women are willing to give in a long term relationship, even if that peters out to no sex at all.

Men are seen to be babies who can't do anything for themselves, and need to have someone pre plan and organise their lives, but god forbid they fall into the pattern of behaviour of expecting their female partner to do these things for them, as that's what they've always done.

This thinking is observable to a greater or lesser extent across the boards.

I've also recognised where this thinking has affected the way I think about my wonderful man, and sometimes in things I've said to him or actions towards him. I need to watch this in future.

I'm concerned that the general thinking about men on this website can't be good for society if this is the way women think, and are encouraged to think by others.

If women treat men this way collectively and have low expectations around them, no wonder the bar is getting lower.

Absolutely agree. The recent stag do thread about the sex worker abbreviations was full of people saying their partner wouldn't have gone.

Just because someone the OPs partner doesn't even know happens to be going on the same stag do and is planning on using sex workers OPs partner obviously is too. He definitely can't be trusted to go and not do anything wrong! All sorts of people go on stag and hen dos, no-one can control what someone else chooses to do.

Also there's so much hypocrisy. If it's a finances post with a woman saying she doesn't want to spend her life savings on her husband it's her money, if it's a man saying it it's their money.

I’d like to think I can make up my own mind based on my own experiences. I can’t be influenced by other people’s personal experiences. Some men are great and some men aren’t. I have been unfortunate in my choices. I can take some of the blame for my historic poor taste but why are men like that in the first place? The men in my family, dad, uncles, siblings etc have all been good men. I have brought up my sons to be decent men and, so far so good.

Absolutely this

Rather than picking at men, women are clearly calling out toxic male behaviour.
How many threads have there been where someone is being abused and it takes pages before the Op finally understands?
There is gaslighting, blaming and people falling over themselves to explain or excuse shitty male behaviour
Behave like a decent, adult, fair human being and there would be zero issues

Yet here we are...

Good post. Women are at far more risk from men than vice versa

The BBC programme on the Manosphere really highlights a group of men who clearly have never had a conversation with a woman.

The problem with MN is it's full of women who have too much experience of awful men.

Actually, an MNer did once try to literally tell me there was 'no such thing' whatsoever.

I'd have loved to have read that paper @Luxlumos .

I've read many threads through the years where the OP has escaped an awful relationship, and MN has given them the strength to do so. The positive impact of those threads and the collective support is powerful.

The amount of fodder given to the all men are shit narrative on the majority of threads is what is concerning me.

Yes, I hate that too - I find it really creepy when posters automatically jump to that conclusion.

I wonder if some of those people insisting that looking after children is exclusively the preserve of women then go on to blast men for essentially agreeing with them and seeing it as 'women's work' and leaving them to it.

Mumsnet has changed my attitude to men in such a healthy way that I'm finally happily single and haven't been putting up with mediocre effort from dates, situationships, short term relationships etc for the past few years and have learned fantastic boundaries and realised I am not the problem, as all the past ones made me feel. It's made me realise that a good man who treats a woman with respect and as his equal is rare and worth being single for.

I see things written here that I spot more quickly in men around me and am able to untangle myself from their weaponised incompetence (the real main one) and just not have them in my life.

One poster used those words, yes, and went on to explain to you what she meant by it, that it's a meaningless concept without power.
Which is similar to my point, that without the power to act on an emotion, the emotion is largely irrelevant outside of the mind of the person feeling it, so doesn't really merit a special label that frames it as akin to misogyny.
I took her meaning not to be literal as in 'no women hate men', rather challenging the notion that hatred of men is an ideological stance that causes harm to a group.

I fear this is a you problem.

There’s some bias, I agree, but there’s bias everywhere and here is really minimal. If you think it’s bad here, go to male dominated websites and you’ll see what’s truly vile.

Yes - I said “Logically people will agree and share that frustration.

You can’t possibly think that is representative of everyone’s relationship, or day to day experience.”

If someone describes an objectively bad situation in a post, others wouldn’t then, instead of comment on that specific post, decide to explain why not all situations are like this.

say someone posts “just found out my DH has been having an affair”. You’d expect the average poster to offer support and call out the husband. Not say, well there’s good men out there because my husband hasn’t had an affair.

It’s a bit like online reviews - most people only really post “it was great” or “it was terrible”

Some threads I've read this morning have helped me to realise that my thinking about men has changed since joining MN. And not in a good way.

Is this during the same time span of increased global violence against women and girls? I'm guessing from that statement you also don't read or listen to any news media outlets and just live in a MN bubble?

Or maybe this is a crap April 1st wind up?

What I have noticed on MN is a sizeable uptick in the number of posts telling us feminism has been a negative for women, men are getting a raw deal, things were so much better in the good old days. OP is just another of those.

Exactly.

Misandry doesn't exist in the same sense that racism against white people doesn't exist and snobbery against rich people doesn't exist.

Yes. I think people don't always understand the difference between prejudice/negative feelings and discrimination/detriment, and the requirement of power to turn the first into the second.

This

Not just on MN - all over social media. Usually on lots of threads from people just commenting REFORM.

Mumsnet has really helped me see how so many men look down on women, including my partner unfortunately. I am not being brainwashed by Mumsnet, I was brainwashed before to place too much value on ‘pleasing men’ and I am grateful to have more insight now. There is a long way to go but I think the vitriol towards a lot of men’s damaging attitudes and behaviour is totally justified to be honest.

I agree with you here too.

It’s by far the friendliest board here.

No, I think that you just get called out on how you present that criticism.

Thought out comments about how Reeves' changes to minimum wage and NIC requirements have made it harder for small businesses to hire new employees are fine, and are usually treated sensibly. Snarky comments about Rachel from Accounts are grounded in misogyny and are rightly treated as such.

Overall, I think what many of these complaints are rooted in is a lack of literacy and an inability to handle nuance. What I find MN is very good at is getting to people to think about what they can and can't control, the standards they can set for how people treat them, and how they choose to respond to that. So e.g. for someone talking about a marriage that has been sexless for a long time and is deteriorating, the MN hive mind tends to come down on:

1. You don't have to have sex with your husband if you don't want to, and he should not be pressuring you into doing things you don't want to do.
2. You don't have to open up the marriage if you don't want to.
3. However, you might have to accept as a consequence of 1 & 2 that you no longer have a marriage that works for both parties, and your husband is free to walk away as a consequence.

I was going to say the same thing - of course popular forums can influence attitudes and opinions.

Those who deny this have either not been here long enough or are too brainwashed to see it.

Then you’ve definitely not been here long enough!

Yep this is what I have noticed. The response is generally “neither of you are wrong but it maybe the end of the marriage / relationship.

Or they pathologise the woman as not wanting sex must be driven by an underlying issue.

There is no literally nothing and I mean NOTHING wrong with a woman having dating dealbreakers.

Nothing to “unlearn” because there is nothing wrong with it (ditto men’s dating dealbreakers.)