Is MN feeding unhealthy attitudes towards men?

[Grtscott]

Some threads I've read this morning have helped me to realise that my thinking about men has changed since joining MN. And not in a good way.

There's an undertone that men need to do things the woman's way, or it's wrong. That men should be grateful for any sex that women are willing to give in a long term relationship, even if that peters out to no sex at all.

Men are seen to be babies who can't do anything for themselves, and need to have someone pre plan and organise their lives, but god forbid they fall into the pattern of behaviour of expecting their female partner to do these things for them, as that's what they've always done.

This thinking is observable to a greater or lesser extent across the boards.

I've also recognised where this thinking has affected the way I think about my wonderful man, and sometimes in things I've said to him or actions towards him. I need to watch this in future.

I'm concerned that the general thinking about men on this website can't be good for society if this is the way women think, and are encouraged to think by others.

If women treat men this way collectively and have low expectations around them, no wonder the bar is getting lower.

My ex used to hate me being on mumsnet. He thought 'those women' were putting terrible ideas in my head.

Of course he thought his behaviour was fine (abusive sex, cheating on me, leaving literally every house hold task and child care to me and intentionally ruining things if I asked him to help, whilst complaining that we didn't have enough money - I also held down a full time job that I worked around the kids).

Mumsnet is what gave me the preparation and support to get out, and get a fair settlement for my children. Women here have provided me with moral support and humour, and advice (both good and bad).

I have seen a few posters advocate some of these, but not most.
I agree class and race are important too.

Also the weirdness of not criticising a woman because 'the sisterhood', so never slag off a female politician because its misogyny, dont give her a stupid demeaning nick name, but do feel free to do that to all and any male politicians. Never comment on how thick or stupid a female politcian or figurehead might be, but do feel free if its a male. Definitely go hell for leather on how awful, ugly, unattractive and 'can you imagine having sex with that' about horrible men in the media or actually even men you might meet, particularly if short. But never comment on what women look like because 'you should never comment on a womans body' or clothing

Omg, now I know you can't be serious 🤣

April Fool joke maybe, but not that funny.

Give up that kind of negativity on both men and women, it's really depressing.

OK, so that makes 3 of us so far! The general motto of MN should be It's my way or the highway!
I'm old enough now to be able to find a lot of it funny, eg he hangs the loo roll incorrectly, ie not the way I want it to be done.
He is expected to 'support' her, ie agree to whatever she says, especially in respect of their children, perish the thought that he should have a different idea!
The responses so far show how entrenched these attitudes are.

"That men should be grateful for any sex that women are willing to give in a long term relationship, even if that peters out to no sex at all."

No. On multiple threads, different posters have raised the issue of not wanting to have sex but expecting the relationship to continue.The majority of posters have argued they would be fairer ending the relationship and allowing the man to find a fulfilling and physical relationship elsewhere.

I have noticed this in myself as well. And unfortunately I have passed these attitudes on to my daughter. She’s going to be a strong woman, but I don’t want her to be anti-men.

I definitely think differently of men since being on MN, and especially in the last five years or so. And I don’t want to feel that way. I wonder if it can be undone 😬

I dont engage with that at all, Im observing it play out on various threads. Im not a name caller at all.

Trump for example, threads are peppered with his physicality and appearance. That really isnt what we need to be worried about!

(thats just the first example that comes into my head)

In general posters will fall over themselves to use crude sexualised insults to men who forgot to put the washing on, or are inept in some way. Name the behaviour, advise the OP, set out strategies and ideas, sympathise and empathise, but dont name call, its infantile.

I 100% agree with you OP. All those being obnoxious to you are part of the problem.

Thank you. Yes, I agree that Reddit hobby & parenting subreddits are pretty much fine.

I only really became aware of how much misogyny was on there due to a post on a feminist subreddit mentioning the subreddit BanFemaleHateSubs. This is full of posters who try to mass report misogynistic porn subs in the hope of taking them down. Sometimes it works, often it doesn't : Reddit only really seems to care if it gets in the news, often. There are similar problems with racist subs although this has improved.

'But just to back up what some of your are saying, I referred back to the study on male / female hate speech - and it was actually based on male and female hating forums that are posted on Reddit! ' - that sounds likely. The moderation system on Reddit means individual subs can get really extreme and there are some I would definitely call misandrist. Mumsnet is a very different kettle of fish.

' I guess if I saw women discussed the same way it would make me feel quite disgusted' - imo on general male forums like Reddit or Pistonheads posts about women that anger me tend to be sexually derogatory ones about specific women. There definitely are forums where men generalise negatively about all women- that would be more manosphere ones.

I think there definitely are divisive narratives being pushed. There's evidence Russia pushes extreme 'gender war' style content to cause issues in the West

I call DH mumsnet man if he does anything which is often moaned about here, eg choosing time to himself over time with me. Then we both laugh. (Incidentally, when I showed him these threads, he thought DH was an abbreviation for D*ck Head, which says a lot about the sentiment typically expressed here.

I haven't see male politicians demeaned that way apart from Trump.

You know you don't have to argue your case.

You can just go on a thread, post your opinion and then ignore all the posters who quote and @ you.

I only say this because I used to do the same. Not post because I couldn't be arsed with all the follow up posts I'd have to reply to. It was like a lightbulb going off when I realised I could just ignore them.

Try it now. Go on, ignore me, I dare ya 😂

I get what you mean, @Grtscott. There's not much nuance on MN and plenty of black and white thinking in attitudes towards husbands and male partners. I often wonder how many posters who've been encouraged by the baying mobs to blow up their marriage over a small matter that could feasibly be resolved end up regretting it.

I disagree op. It’s men that
have got worse over time and the only thing women have done is allow it. They get called babies as a lot of them are. Yes l, there are lovely ones, absolutely. There’s a lot of low quality men about these days imo.

Totally agree OP, I’ve felt the same with my OH at times after reading on here, and I really don’t want to be that picky moany person who complains about the slightest thing.
We all have our faults and marriage is definitely a two way street, not that you’d think it at times on here.

I'm also a far left feminist and agree with much of your post. The lack of any acknowledgement of intersectionality and compound disadvantage is frustrating to me at times.
However, I find my opinions to be formed not only from my beliefs, but also from patterns I've noted, that dont necessarily sit neatly alongside them.
An example from your post is the men and women friendship issue. I completely agree that people shouldn't be forced to form friendships based on their sex. However I also know that the formation of opposite sex close friendships with an emotional connection can form a significant threat to a marriage. So while the theory is sound, the practical application can, and does cause problems.
Because whether we like it or not, sex is often a key element in the relationships between men and women. Men often use friendship as a gateway to sex. Friendship between two people who are physically attractive to each other often does lead to sex.
I think agreeing with a woman concerned about her husband's new friendship with his female colleague that she may have reason, and confirming her right to set boundaries, while not 'feminist' in the theoretical sense, is an everyday working feminism that may serve as a protective factor against a woman being unwittingly mistreated.

Lol

Johnson, Reese Mogg (or whatever his name was), Gove to name some off the top of my head

Im out of date as I got so fed up with politics that I drifted away from it so I cant think of more recent names, but it goes back further than the Johnson government anyway

Oh Hague, he was another one that people were quite overt about his physical presence/appearance.

I call it the dump and leave method - I sometimes do it if I can’t be arsed to argue

Boris, Michael Gove, Matt Hancock, Michael Fabricant have all come in for it too. Rishi Sunak did to a degree - and especially mocked for his height. Plus Keir Starmer is often ridiculed for his nerdy, reedy voice, rather than focusing on what he actually chooses to say with it.

There always were. Men most definitely haven’t got worse. I look at our sons and their contribution to domestic life and it’s way greater than my generation. My parents’ generation was worse again.

Oh I forgot about Fabricant. Yes, muchly.

Sunak yes.

Late to this, but no, men do it all by themselves. Women are more able now to discuss these things thanks to forums like this.

Weirdly men have had plenty of opportunities to absorb this information and evolve, but are largely choosing to double down to the point where most women would choose to be alone in a wood with a bear rather than a random man.

Too many men prove time and time again how shit they are. It’s taken a while but women are now listening and believing.