Panorama - is the XL Bully Ban working

[SaltandPepper22]

Discussion thread.

Personally I can’t understand why they weren’t all just rounded up and destroyed - all of the exemption nonsense just muddied the water.

I do also agree though that there is a problem of ownership; no one should be allowed to have these dogs but there needs to be tighter controls on dog ownership in general.

I would like to see:

• A full ban of any bully type breed
• A maximum weight restriction for any domestic dog
• Restrictions on which dogs can be domestic pets and which are for work only e.g., Rottweiler only for police dog handlers
• Restrictions on size of dog you can own based on the size of your property
• A mandatory training course for new dog owners
• A return to licensing with a points based system for infringements

And obviously, the funding to make sure the above happens! We are apparently currently spending millions rounding up and housing all these XL Bullies, we have the money.

@Toastersandkettles The whole point is to reduce all the incentives to breed. We have too many dogs!

This article is interesting - https://www.dogstrust.org.uk/about-us/what-we-do/stories/uk-dog-population

Personally I would ban the import of rescue dogs. Local to me they now just seem to permanently import from Romania dogs that have lived on the streets. They're on local Facebook looking for funds for their longest resident of 5 years who can't be homed with men, children, other animals or be left at any point. Also can't be walked reliably on a lead.

Lots of people with untrained dogs let their dogs off the.lead. "don't worry she's friendly" as they chase their dog across the park.

If this wasnt a norm, it would be far easier to isolate those with untrained off leash dogs and reprimand them.

Yes this is crazy
Why are we doing this? These dogs are feral!

All dogs are capable of killing someone. We need to stop normalising reactive behaviour altogether. If you have a yorkie and it constantly barks and reacts to people and dogs, that needs to be deemed inappropriate behaviour in a dog and the dog is either rehomed to a particular environment or put down. If we never see reactive, untrained dogs, that will.become our norm.

I still see one of these on a regular basis around where I live. It's always on a lead but never wearing a muzzle. It always gives me the side-eye when I walk past it.

There are a lot of very dim people on here that don’t know a lot about dogs.

Actually, I think it would be an ice breaker for a conversation to start if you said "I'm a bit scared of dogs".

I rescued a dog (or 2) from Spain. One was a "feral" ex street dog. It's been so rewarding watching her confidence grow and turn into a wonderful best buddy.

Why did you have to get a dog from Spain though? There are already so many dogs here. There was a thread maybe a year ago where a woman had “rescued” a dog from abroad and now it was biting her children and she was struggling to rehome it or even give it to a shelter.

It's a difficult one for me

Personally I feel that in terms of "bad or dangerous dogs" it's more a case of negligent and shitty owners who do fuck all in terms of training said dog.

My best friend adopted an XL bully just before the ban (shed just had a litter and thankfully all were adopted into loving homes)

I genuinely feel safe as fuck around my friends dog. Honestly there is zero concern for my safety when I am around her and up close and in her personal space. She has boundaries, she doesn't cross them. My friend has put substantial time into training her, she's insured , she's always muzzled when out and about. And my friend pays privately for her to access a private field where she can run about unmuzzled and off lead.

Sadly there's a shit ton of people who don't give a shit, who don't train their dogs, who don't care about their welfare. And sadly in those cases I feel dogs will inevitably revert back to innate animal instincts, which unfortunately with this breed can include increased aggression.

But I can't, hand on heart, say I'd be ok with putting down my best friends XL bully down purely because of her breed. Genuinely that dog is as soft as a fucking brush and I honestly fear far more human men in terms of violence than I do her.. 😢

I have not watched the program yet. I will in a bit.

I have not seen many XL bullys out and about. The last one I saw was muzzled and was with an older couple. Not the usual sort of people you would expect to have one if you believe in stereotyping the owners. The dog was outside a café, and sitting and giving paw for treats. Very well behaved. They also had a JRT. It was a cold day, and the owner of the cafe came out and said they could sit in the cafe if they wanted as dogs were welcome. They said no, as the JRT was a little shit and would misbehave 😂

I don't think the ban is working as people are still breeding them and selling them to unscrupulous people. If you love dogs, and love your own dog, surely you would want to keep them within the law, and safe? Not risk having them seized and PTS. I found it sad that some people opted to have them euthanised rather than neuter them, muzzle train them, and keep them on a lead.

My mum lives near a man who has 2 XL bully dogs. He has abided by all the rules, and by all accounts they are well behaved, and the owner is a nice chap too. A few months ago, he had his front door open and let his dogs out to jump in the boot of his car on his drive. A lady was walking her dog past his house at the time, and his dogs went straight for her dog and ripped it to shreds. It was alive but in such a bad state, they could not lift it into their car to get to a vet. A vet had to come out and put it out its misery on the path. The owner of the bullys tried to call them off but they just ignored him. Nothing will be done as the justice system is shit when it comes to dog on dog attacks.

That is the trouble with these dogs. They might be cuddle monsters and easy mannered, but if they turn you can't do anything about it. They are just too powerful. They can be shot several times and still keep attacking.
The ban might have lowered the attacks happening on people out in public, but it has not done much for people who get hurt by them in their own homes.

Sorry for the essay!

@YeOldeGreyhound you are right - the problem with these dogs is that they can just flip, seemingly unprovoked. And it’s the same problem with descriptions like @KitTea3 has made - oh it’s such a softy, wouldn’t hurt a soul and then a suddenly it has snapped and you can’t get it off you

Yes, all dogs are indeed capable of killing other animals and humans. But not all dogs are deliberately bred to do exactly that. XL bullies are.

As pps have said, can't owners see the irony of their 'Oh, he/she is just a big softie!"? Yes, of course they are - right up to the moment something flips in their brains and they tear someone/something apart (see the horrible story of the poor dog which wandered into the path of two of these monsters, above).

If all dogs were expected to display socialised behaviour, dogs displaying unsocialised behaviour would stand out.

Yes I am worried about being mauled by an XL bully. But its never happened. What does happen every day is some sort of undesirable incident with an untrained, unsocialised dog.

@YeOldeGreyhound the poor dog, that is awful. Some dogs like most companion breeds are just not going to fight back and defend themselves either, fighting isnt their nature. I always run cold at the woman who watched her sausage dogs ragged to death in front of her, on a beach I believe. I don't know how one would live with the anger.

Interesting to note that they are bred to be dog reactive and people passive (tho obvs sometimes it all goes horribly wrong people or dog!)

A woman in my village has some bull breed, prob not an XL but I dont make any distinction - I actively avoid any bull breeds and dont care if I cause offence. It stops and stares at my dog from a distance, might be harmless interest but I dont mess about - I leash my dog and exit the field or cross the street and walk far far away.

As a small dog owner I am just as aware of sighthounds as I am xl bullies tbf.

my neighbours small dog was caught and ragged by a greyhound when I was a child. Never forgotten it.

It’s instinct for those dogs though, something doesn’t even “snap in their brain”. It’s literally bred into them- small furry, must chase and kill.

I got 2 from Spain because we have 7 children between us and, at the time (2014), some of the children were still quite young and no UK rescues would allow us to adopt. So we found a Spanish rescue group on Facebook and adopted 2 from them and fostered a few others.

So you went against advice? These dogs are not allowed into homes with young children for good reason!

I don't have XL Bullies if that's what you're implying.

And it wasn't advice as such, it was just the rescues' policy of rehoming dogs with children. So unless I wanted to buy from breeders I had to look abroad for a rescue dog.

So didn’t you think about why rescues here won’t rehome to families with young children? I just don’t understand why you’d take that risk, horribly unfair to both the dogs and your family if it didn’t work out.

I agree I don’t think we should allow rescue dogs to be imported especially when you hear people are only doing it to get round the (on the whole sensible) rules rescues have here.

I’m in favour of an XL Bully cull - they absolutely terrify me and I think we need less dogs and better rules around breeding and licensing. I have a dog, he’s fear reactive on a lead after being attacked as a puppy. Before we had him (and I did a tonne of research) I didn’t really appreciate how much of a responsibility they are, how expensive they are and how you can only go so far with training. Ours is a traditionally easy breed who is usually a good family dog. As it turns out he’s not good with small children and he’s not ok with sitting in a pub or cafe and he’s shocking at the vets so we have to constantly train and work around all of that. Love him but he’s a massive 15 year plus commitment.

Why would you think rescuing a dog would be better than getting it from an ethical breeder, especially in your distinct circumstances?

Also I’d add in terms of the XL bully “my friends is a big softy and completely safe” argument- it’s utterly delusional. No dog is completely safe, some dogs are far safer but any dog has the potential to turn because they are ill or spooked etc. I think there was a recent case of a child being killed by an XL bully who had been scared by fireworks. The difference between XL bully’s and other dogs is that they are more prone to aggression because of their breeding and once they attack you can’t stop them. This isn’t rocket science.

Because pedigree dogs are a ridiculous price and can still have health problems, plus I'm not so keen on the idea of bringing more dogs into the world when there are so many (worldwide) needing homes. Same with back yard / hobby breeders. I don't like the idea of lining pockets.

I'm all about the mutts, waifs and strays and the generally unwanted.

That's not always the best option when you have children, hence the rescues often not coming dogs with young children. Others don't care about the obvious risks.