Panorama - is the XL Bully Ban working

[SaltandPepper22]

Discussion thread.

Personally I can’t understand why they weren’t all just rounded up and destroyed - all of the exemption nonsense just muddied the water.

I do also agree though that there is a problem of ownership; no one should be allowed to have these dogs but there needs to be tighter controls on dog ownership in general.

I would like to see:

• A full ban of any bully type breed
• A maximum weight restriction for any domestic dog
• Restrictions on which dogs can be domestic pets and which are for work only e.g., Rottweiler only for police dog handlers
• Restrictions on size of dog you can own based on the size of your property
• A mandatory training course for new dog owners
• A return to licensing with a points based system for infringements

And obviously, the funding to make sure the above happens! We are apparently currently spending millions rounding up and housing all these XL Bullies, we have the money.

Same here.

First time I saw one it took my breath. Sounds dramatic but I was so shocked.

It's head was enormous and it was muscled like a horse.

You could just tell that no human would have a chance if it turned, regardless of size. Not with jaws like that.

I’d mandate some kind of insurance requirements like for vehicles. If the dog’s uninsured for damage to property or persons, then confiscate it. This would, for example, pay out huge sums to children who suffer bites and wounds in public parks.

I don't agree with all of your points but I do think dog licences would be a brilliant idea. Give everyone 12 months to get one. Then after that if your dog is impounded and it isnt licenced then it could be PTS and we wouldn't be funding those ridiculous kennel costs.

In a way, breeding huge and powerful dogs with the potential for aggression could be viewed in the same light as breeding flat-faced dogs with respiratory problems, or sausage dog doomed to bad backs, etc. We just shouldn't be creating dogs that are doomed to blighted lives.
We need to find a properly rigorous form of control on bad breeding, with criminal sanctions. And we need to finance it with a paid-for licencing system. If peolple can spend £££££ on unnecessary dog coats and dog ice cream etc, they cn divert a bit of that spend to a licence fee.

But there are other dogs who also make good companions and don’t have the ability to eat babies.

Maybe every puppucino should have a tax applied that goes directly to fund dealing with the problem!

Should have been a cull long ago. Sadly the public doesn’t have the stomach for it.

You should only be allowed to get a dog if you have a garden big enough to exercise it in. We shouldn’t have to put up with untrained dogs off the lead in public places.

I don't think that its the owner of dogs getting expensive coats, puppucinos etc that are the issue though. I've only ever seen XL bullies with exactly the kind of owners you would expect to have one.

I really can’t understand why people have a problem with it personally - these creatures aren’t sympathetic animals, they are monsters. They aren’t even cute!

You are much better having a retired greyhound in a flat than a jack Russel terrier. However if, like me when I did have a GSD, you go camping/walking etc, the size of property you live in is irrelevant. French bull terriers are a bull breed. I'd agree with restrictions on breeding (no dog should struggle to breathe), but your rules won't help anyone, if you know about dogs.
XLB should have been culled. The families of the people who have been injured and killed should sue the Scottish government.

Just make the owners of all dogs liable for the damage they do. Your dog kills someone, that's manslaughter. It bites someone, that's ABH or GBH.

The top 10 most biting dogs are apparently:

labradors
staffies
German sheperd
english bull terriers
american bulldogs/bully breeds
rottweilers
border collies
jack russels
cocker spaniels
french bulldog

how likely is a dog bite? 1 in 4 people will be bitten in the UK at some point by a dog.

6,000 to 9,000 bites per year require hospital treatment. UK population is 67m that’s roughly 1 in 7,000-10,000 people per year needing hospital care for a dog bite. And more importantly less than 1% of all bites are serious for hospital treatment.

Theres 3 deaths per year in a normal year with a spike of 15 in 2023 that’s roughly 1 in 20-25 million per year.

Statistically more likely to die from choking.

Breed ownership is the problem. Every single breed of dog is dangerous. Every single one.

So that is surely an argument for better regulation?

Better regulation alongside a ban of those breeds which are more likely to case harm is sensible - nobody needs a cane corso as a family pet for example. And aren’t jack russells just famously little shits?

Who is going to police all that and were are the funds coming from?

Over a third of the population owns a dog, and they'll mostly be voting age - does any government want to piss off a third of the population on the level that seizing their family member and murdering it (because that is what their view will be) would be?

The ban as it was carried out caused dogs to be disappeared, transported around the country, handed over to idiots and more than a handful of bites/attacks/injuries followed and quite a lot of dogs suffered horrible abuse and neglect. You might not like the look of them, but they exist because people created them, it isn't their fault and no animal deserves to suffer.

I agree we need some sort of regulation and owner-training, a pre-dog ownership qualification scheme perhaps.

We REALLY need regulation on training, at present anyone can set up as a dog trainer or dog behaviourist and then do all manner of things that will definitely (backed by science) increase the likelihood of a dog being dangerous. It is still legal to slap on a shock collar or prong collar, to terrify or hit a dog in the name of training, to train pet dogs in pet homes to be 'personal protection dogs' - ie, to bite strangers..

We also really need good regulation on breeding - the current set up affects the dedicated hobby breeder - the person who has one litter every few years, does their research, does it to improve a breed or to refine working skills - the most. It does NOT affect puppy farmers or backyard breeders trying to create monsters or just seeking to line their pockets.

Breed or type specific legislation is not effective long term. The Pitbull ban is evidence of that, as is the XL bully ban - and not just here in the UK. In other countries too.

We need accountability from breeders/owners - a microchip system that actually works that needs to be updated, like car paperwork - and retains information from breeder to owner to owner down the line. Caught with a dog not chipped to you, big trouble. Dog caught chipped to you and you claim its not your dog, you sold it to a bloke down the road, but the chip isn't updated - big trouble. Putting the onus on both buyer AND seller to submit details for the chip.

I'd go further - if a dog is involved in an incident and you bred that dog, you are also potentially liable for whatever that dog has been allowed to do, along with the most recent person listed as the owner. Now THAT would sharpen peoples fucking minds!

I strongly disagree that they should all be rounded up and killed or that all bully breeds should be banned, many of them including the XL can make lovely dogs, it's often the owners mistreating or not training the dogs thats to blame. We need a system that puts more on the owner and not the dog (yeah the owner might get fined but it's the dog that gets it's life taken)

I would prefer to see:

● Mandatory training courses on dog health and care, dog behaviour, obedience training with exams at the end and background checks for the prospective owners and their family before a licence to own any dog is issued. Refresher training courses and background checks redone at reasonable intervals.

● Harsher punishments to those who mistreat or neglect their pets or otherwise use their dog in an unlawful manner (i.e. to intimidate someone deliberately)

@CinnamonBuns67 I’m sure some of them do but why take the risk when you could just get a different dog with less potential to bite you in the jugular? Why not have a breed ban AND better controls? Surely that is safest.

@WiddlinDiddlin we are currently spending £25m on kennelling XLs - stop doing that (because you have put them down) and there’s your money!

Sorry but I think you're living in dreamland. Social Services can't even track humans' well-being sufficiently, there's not going to be some big monitoring system to figure out which XLs and other dangerous breeds can make lovely dogs and which can be killers. Agree that the owners are the problem but no one's going to resolve that issue (see Social Services inadequacies), so the safest and simplest thing is to not have those dogs in the UK. If people want dogs that can be lovely, there's 100s of other breeds to choose from, and yes they should all be licenced and have mandatory training that all owners pay enough for to support the training and licencing system. But that's all it can be - licence, training and harsher punishment - yes. Dangerous dog ownership - nope. Nuanced system for tracking loveliness/dangerous levels - unworkable.

I completely agree with

● Mandatory training courses on dog health and care, dog behaviour, obedience training with exams at the end and background checks for the prospective owners and their family before a licence to own any dog is issued. Refresher training courses and background checks redone at reasonable intervals.
● Harsher punishments to those who mistreat or neglect their pets or otherwise use their dog in an unlawful manner (i.e. to intimidate someone deliberately)

There's merit in applying the same rules to parenting.

Is that per capita?

as in the top biting dog is a lab, but is that because there are more labs than say cane corsos?

if there are 100 cane corso’s in the uk and they all bite, they won’t make your list unless it’s done by percentage of cane corso’s in the uk.

It's because there are more labs.

You don't need a big garden to own a dog. You need to be able to walk it properly and daily. Our working cocker spaniel refuses to go in our garden but would misbehave around the house if not walked daily for an hour off the lead and have play and stimulation indoors.

I would honestly report this for not wearing a muzzle.

and Im pretty sure that just reported bites from official sources.
I think the most likely to bite breeds are actually

1. dachshund
2. jack russell

3. chihuahua

I think we can all see why its never really reported officially though!
and thats the problem with dogs like XL bullies. A chihuahua bites you and it barely breaks the skin but an XLB is going to maim or kill you.
Ridiculous that we dont have dog licenses anymore given the potential for harm a dog has.

Agree 100%. I lived on a canal boat with my dog for many years. No garden at all but we were out walking for hours every day.