Panorama - is the XL Bully Ban working

[SaltandPepper22]

Discussion thread.

Personally I can’t understand why they weren’t all just rounded up and destroyed - all of the exemption nonsense just muddied the water.

I do also agree though that there is a problem of ownership; no one should be allowed to have these dogs but there needs to be tighter controls on dog ownership in general.

I would like to see:

• A full ban of any bully type breed
• A maximum weight restriction for any domestic dog
• Restrictions on which dogs can be domestic pets and which are for work only e.g., Rottweiler only for police dog handlers
• Restrictions on size of dog you can own based on the size of your property
• A mandatory training course for new dog owners
• A return to licensing with a points based system for infringements

And obviously, the funding to make sure the above happens! We are apparently currently spending millions rounding up and housing all these XL Bullies, we have the money.

exactly and people were most annoyed when I pointed out that they shouldn’t have got the dog/pet if they couldn’t afford to care for it, the obvious arguments were about people not having children they can’t afford, fair comment but children are potential tax payers, dogs/pets are not, that went down like a lead balloon 😂

And the type of people who own dangerously agressive dogs who knowingly let them off the lead in wildly unsuitable areas wouldnt give a shiny shite about the various different levels of permit....

the same way that they dont give a shiny shite about the dangerous dogs act now.

We aren’t talking about banning dogs altogether - we are talking about making it safer for everybody. The increase in dog ownership is the reason why change is necessary.

More help and information would benefit and protect a lot of children.

There wouldn't need to be exams, it needn't be an academic course.

Most people in the UK are not net tax contributors.

I think there is a huge issue with dog ownership in this country. XL bullies are just part of a much bigger problem.

Indiscriminate breeding is where it starts - this would be my priority. We need to stop breeding undesirable dogs of all kinds. It should be illegal to breed dogs without a special licence that requires regular inspections of premises and certificates of health for the parent dogs etc. All puppies should be vetted and vaccinated and speyed etc. before leaving the breeder at an older age. This would make breeding less profitable and puppies more expensive but that is not a bad thing. (I beleive the same principles should apply in the horse world too).

Breeders should be legally required to take back any dogs that the purchaser finds unsuitable.

No dog should be in kennels long-term. If a dog isn't 100% suitable for re-homing it should be pts. I used to work for a charity that prided itself that they never put a healthy dog down - this was a huge mistake and the charity was eventually over-whelmed with dangerous dogs and no longer had the capacity to help where an old lady went into a nursing home and her little lap dog needed re-homing.

I'm not sure that dog licensing has much impact so it wouldn't be a priority and would just end up costing money to run the scheme.

There needs to be a ban on importing dogs too. We have enough of our own to rehome! Obviously there needs to be some exemptions for show dogs and breeding stud dogs, but again these would need to be vetted, vaccinated and the owners licenced.

I am also strongly in favour of all dogs being kept on leads at all times in public places. The amount of damage done to ground-nesting birds and other wildlife is becoming intolerable. In sensitive places there should be a complete ban on dogs to avoid contamination by dog faeces and that would include footpaths that cross livestock fields. Obviously we would need many more dog fields or designated areas to allow people to exercise their dogs safely. I am aware my views are quite radical but living in a popular national park has made me aware of how much damage is being done by the ever increasing number of dogs.

@FalseSpring mandatory spaying before maturity?? Good grief

What’s wrong with that?

House & garden size are irrelevant. You can live in a caravan or a canal boat with dogs and still have amazing welfare standards.

I never mentioned maturity. If as a breeder you prefer to wait to spey, then you just can't sell the dog (unless to another licenced breeder) until you have.

No one is going to buy a 2 year old dog from a breeder, that :

• Has been living with its litter of goodness knows how many (littermate syndrome mean anything to you?)
• you have no idea what experiences this dog has had
• is not a puppy

At that point it is a rescue situation in which case people would go to a reputable rescue

In your scenario, What is the answer for someone who wants a puppy (not an adult) but is also wise to the often catastrophic effects of spaying before maturity?

There are so many people on this thread who are spouting knee jerk "solutions" without any understanding and/or care of dogs.

I'm out. this is going the way most MN Dog threads do - absolutely barmy. 🤡

Sorry in advance...this is irrelevant and very harsh, I know, but...

Why does anyone want to own these ugly dogs, bred specifically to attack, hold on to their prey despite everything, and to kill?

I love animals and I feel sorry for the creatures themselves - they are an artificial creation of brutal humans. But when you think of all the breeds of dog you can choose from, it tells you everything you need to know about someone who chooses to own one of these monsters. And then some owners go and cut off their ears to make them even more terrifyingly ugly.

Rant over.

Agree. So many ignorant posters who don't understand dogs and just see big = vicious.

Lots of people like to do the opposite of what they are told is acceptable. Risk is exciting. Annoying others or creating fear feels powerful.

And every day their dog doesn't maul someone is a day they get to smugly smile and say 'Told ya so, she's a big softie'.

Good grief indeed - you cannot spay/neuter puppies before maturity. How long would breeders need to keep the puppies?!
Some of the posts on here are getting beyond ridiculous!

At what age do you think you can spay/neuter dogs?

I expect that’s what every owner of dogs that have attacked people would have said, until something upset the dog and it attacked someone.

Ditto. Such a dumb statement. No point in reading the rest of a post that starts with such nonsense.

So it is nonsense to think that we shouldn’t have killing machines bred from a notoriously vicious dog in homes?

@CoffeeCantata Totally agree. It’s the awful people who want dogs that have been bred to fulfill the obscene wants of these dreadful people. It’s not awful to
want a big dog that’s a recognised breed, but these dogs are not those dogs.

You lost me at the second paragraph you are entitled to your opinion but you really don't know a lot about dogs. At what age do you think a dog should be spayed? It isn't generally recommended to spay before a first season and mine was nearly 2 before she had hers.

That is a fascinating account - obviously lots of training, quality diet, some decent information being given out - but paired with some absolute idiocy and delusion. Three serious gut blockages and no change to feeding style? Deranged.

He is obviously strong, but in reality if just one of those dogs really decides to take off he won’t be stopping it, let alone walking all three together. Lots of off lead in public places - even if early, people tend to walk antisocial dogs early and late - he won’t be the only one doing it, and I wouldn’t want to meet them.

Dogs left in outside yard that I’ve no doubt they could get out of if they set their mind to it, with that fencing set-up with the half wall. Things clearly already on a knife edge between the two bitches (and in a couple of videos between the dog and the bitch, which is unusual and a measure of the breed), but if the young one doesn’t seriously injure the older one when she’s fully mature, I’d be amazed.

Presas (and bull breeds in general) are not my bag, but I can appreciate that particularly the young female is a stunning animal in optimal condition, and he must work very hard at that. It is still a bomb waiting to go off though, and I’m glad I don’t live near him.

Most small breeds of dog are fine to be neutered or spayed around six months. In larger breeds there can be health benefits to waiting until later.

However the main point of my suggestions is to stop people breeding from their pets and to stop people buying cute puppies and then abandoning them.

I come from a farming family where it was common for people to purchase a fully trained sheepdog that was ready to start work. The breeder/trainer put the hours in and made sure the dog was fit for purpose before selling it when it was around a year old and had at least learned the basics. Obviously the purchaser needed to continue that training, but it demonstrates how a responsible breeder can do the best for their dogs. That is what good breeders should do, not just churn out cute puppies to sell at a few weeks old, of unknown temperament and trainability.

Yes, if you lived on that street you wouldn’t be inclined to say ‘Actually we are fucking terrified of your dogs’ would you? You’d smile politely and nod, which is what I expect most people do. If I had small kids on that street I’d be fucking terrified.

But my point also was that this isn’t rare, this is happening all over. People like to feel the prestige of being able to tame these giant beasts, they’re picked for their size, for their muscle. They must know deep down that their dog is capable of killing someone, that is exactly why they own them.

Your working breeds idea is bonkers. I have a border collie from working lines and he was kicked off the farm as a pup because he's terrified of sheep and prefers napping to running around fields. Would he have just been euthanised under your plan?
I do believe in dog licences and mandatory ownership training before even owning a dog, then more training once you get the dog. I just can't see it being enforced anytime soon, or how it would even be possible given the amount of backyard breeding going on in this country.