Panorama - is the XL Bully Ban working

[SaltandPepper22]

Discussion thread.

Personally I can’t understand why they weren’t all just rounded up and destroyed - all of the exemption nonsense just muddied the water.

I do also agree though that there is a problem of ownership; no one should be allowed to have these dogs but there needs to be tighter controls on dog ownership in general.

I would like to see:

• A full ban of any bully type breed
• A maximum weight restriction for any domestic dog
• Restrictions on which dogs can be domestic pets and which are for work only e.g., Rottweiler only for police dog handlers
• Restrictions on size of dog you can own based on the size of your property
• A mandatory training course for new dog owners
• A return to licensing with a points based system for infringements

And obviously, the funding to make sure the above happens! We are apparently currently spending millions rounding up and housing all these XL Bullies, we have the money.

They need culling immediately - all bully breeds. Yes all dogs bite, but there's a difference between a bully breed biting/mauling, and a bite from a normal dog.
I'd willingly play judge and executioner, zero qualms. I have seen the damage these breeds do and they are not worth it. Humans must come first.

Current 'ban' isn't a ban at all. It's pathetic.

I don't know about that. Everyone I know would like to see them wiped off the face of the earth. Surely it's only the low lifes who own them who would object.

The XL bully legislation seems to have died a death round here, dogs are walked who were originally muzzled without muzzle now.
I agree in proper licensing but not the 'big' dog type ban OP suggests.
I have a large breed, she goes to secure dog fields not because of her but other useless owners letting their ickle furbabies harass her off lead. If she reacted, she would get the blame. I take her to an activity training class every week and she does 'working' dog skills. She is a happy well adjusted dog.

Labradors being at the top is linked to how many are registered annually-very popular breed, I blame the toilet roll adverts!

I don’t think the legislation has made any difference. Met a child, about 9, while I was walking my dogs. She had a bitch puppy xl, said her dog had had 13 and they were keeping ’loads’. Saw her a few months later and she said they’d sold them all bar the puppy she was again walking.

Today, walking mine through a wood and saw an owner holding her madly barking dog back. Bully type, possibly not big enough for an xl. I know any breed can be dangerous, temperament is key but I don’t think byb particularly care about that when producing multiple litters. People say staffie are nanny dogs, but https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15376215/mother-mauled-trio-dogs-six-day-baby.html?ito=native_share_article-nativemenubutton&fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAc3J0YwZhcHBfaWQMMzUwNjg1NTMxNzI4AAEe31FIOCSoyAtjndFZD0XVbqx4iytcRGkwA_5YTQc8UdgdHz0MS1rN3jTEHwk_aem_kb7B2pcMOof5e10I7nJhgA

Met 2 huge, lovely gsds being ‘walked’ today by an owner who was standing just playing on her phone. Very boring for the dogs. Stimulation is key, not necessarily hours of running.

All bull breeds banned?! You would have french bulldogs destroyed. They are not healthy but entirely not a danger.

All of your points are ridiculous. This amount of legislation is completely pointless and would cause more harm than good. Legislation in itself is also pointless without enforcement.

These sorts of things are entirely enforceable if people want to do it. Same for money - if people really want something to happen, magically the money can be found.

What do you suggest then, leave it as it is and allow children to continue to have their faces mauled off?

I agree with a lot of what you have said apart from

• A maximum weight restriction for any domestic dog - You have dogs like Newfoundlands, Bernese Mountain dogs, Great Danes ect, I don't think people should be banned from owning those.

• Restrictions on size of dog you can own based on the size of your property - You could move house, unless your situation is dire then I don't see how it is in the dogs or anyone else's best interests for the dog to be given up.

Otherwise I am all for tighter controls, as a responsible dog owner I would be happy to see rules enforced and if it encourages people to do their research and educate themselves before buying any breed of dog that can only be a good thing.

Genuine question: does muzzling an XL bully for a walk frustrate it and possibly get it into an agitated state so that, when the muzzle is removed at home or in the car, it is more likely to bite it's owner?

Ideally tighter controls on all dog owners. Mandatory training classes etc. We need to change the entire culture around what we see as acceptable dog behaviour regardless of size or breed.

Everyone should muzzle train their dogs as a psrt of standard training. It could be necessary to save their life when they are sick or injured so defensive. When you have powerful dogs, you need to do it because some vets and groomers won't see them otherwise. Over time, if they see your dog is fine, they won't insist on it.

One vet said to me "I have to maintain my confidence with dogs so need to avoid bad incidents". He later told me that he isn't really into dogs. He prefers reptiles as pets but loves veterinary medicine. He can't let his ambivilence and slight fear of bigger dogs overwhelm his ability to practice.

But if, hypothetically, someone who had an XL bully, if they haven't done the puppy training stage of wearing a muzzle, but just start putting the muzzle on them for walks due to change in the law - could this cause agitation in the XL bullymaking them more likely to bite once the muzzle is removed?

Possibly but that would be mighty silly of them not to do the training - reaping, sowing etc.

We should ban all dogs a toddler couldn’t beat in a fight.

That doesn't leave any at all. Even a teacup dog (ridiculous name) can jump and bite, hard. It's dogs that attack suddenly, out of nowhere, that are really dangerous because it gives you no chance to de-escalate or back off.

It's bizarre that a dog seized by the police has to be kept in kennels until any criminal proceedings complete, even if it's a clear danger to people & animals. Any animal seized should be assessed on its' behaviour/potential threat & any dangerous ones put down straight away. Compensate the owner if needed but giving them back a dangerous dog is madness.

No such thing as a teacup dog.

tbf I’d bet on the toddler in a fight against my yorkie. Even a small toddler is 5x his size, and he has no bite instinct for anything that isn’t small and mouse shaped. He’s very aware of his size and isn’t taking anything non rodent on- even cats are afforded the respect they deserve. He’s got no teeth now anyway 🫣

which is why I got a Yorkshire terrier. And was very careful about his breeder and nature of his parents/heritage.

Some people get their dogs back after months of investigation because they are not XL bullies.

Yes there is.
https://www.bluecross.org.uk/advice/dog/wellbeing-and-care/what-is-a-teacup-dog

It’s a marketing term used by unethical breeders. Usually indicative of all sorts of health issues.

it’s not any sort of standard or recognisable breed or subset of any breed.

i get asked if mine is a “teacup”. The answer is no, he’s the runt of the litter, only just meets breed standard and has been neutered by his breeder so he cannot be used for unethical breeding.

And I didn't say it was. I know dogs...

But even a teacup dog can bite and bite hard and a toddler could struggle to fight it off.

There are charities such as Thin Blue Paw, amongst others, who help find homes and fund medical care for retired police dogs after they're discarded by the police force.

You'd have had a heart attack then seeing all the ones that came into the vets where I work to be neutered.

Yes agree - breed is irrelevant if it is dangerous. We can’t be saying oh it bit Theo down the road but he’s not an XL because his head isn’t big enough so we’ll give him back can we?!

All dog owners agree that certain dog breeds have certain characteristics like retrieval or herding or guarding but when you say that XL bully’s are aggressive you’ll get some owners saying no it’s the owners.
Loads of dogs bite. But I’d rather deal with a nasty lab bite than an xl bully. Nobody needs one of these dogs.

In your hypothetical situation in a dog that isn't muzzle trained, they'd be more likely to bite when someone was trying to put the muzzle on rather than taking it off. If they're muzzle trained it can be seen as a positive thing as an indication that a walk is imminent