Panorama - is the XL Bully Ban working

[SaltandPepper22]

Discussion thread.

Personally I can’t understand why they weren’t all just rounded up and destroyed - all of the exemption nonsense just muddied the water.

I do also agree though that there is a problem of ownership; no one should be allowed to have these dogs but there needs to be tighter controls on dog ownership in general.

I would like to see:

• A full ban of any bully type breed
• A maximum weight restriction for any domestic dog
• Restrictions on which dogs can be domestic pets and which are for work only e.g., Rottweiler only for police dog handlers
• Restrictions on size of dog you can own based on the size of your property
• A mandatory training course for new dog owners
• A return to licensing with a points based system for infringements

And obviously, the funding to make sure the above happens! We are apparently currently spending millions rounding up and housing all these XL Bullies, we have the money.

A full ban of any bully type breed - Whilst I think I understand your point, the fact is Staffies are incredibly highly recommended as family dogs but fall within 'bull-breed' under many criteria, as do things like Boxers which again are well-known and well loved family dogs. So this wouldn't work.

A maximum weight restriction for any domestic dog - St Bernards? Bernese? This wouldn't work

Restrictions on which dogs can be domestic pets and which are for work only e.g., Rottweiler only for police dog handlers - Disagree. I have a friend who owns a Malinois and it's probably the happiest, well-adjusted, dog I have ever met. It's certainly happier than most 'family' pets I know.

Restrictions on size of dog you can own based on the size of your property - Some of the biggest dogs require smaller properties. Greyhounds are large, for example, but can easily live in flats.

A mandatory training course for new dog owners - Just wouldn't work and a waste of everyones time. What would be better is restrictions on first time owners owning particular breeds - and in that I include Golden Retrievers, GSDs, Springer Spaniels, Border Collies etc.

A return to licensing with a points based system for infringements - And how will this be financed? Everyone is already at breaking point tax wise.

Ultimately, responsibility will always (for financial and practical reasons) need to lay with the general public not being complete tossers. And as we have all seen repeatedly over the last few years, people are tossers.

Mandatory training courses on dog health and care, dog behaviour, obedience training with exams at the end

Ooof that's my dopey sighthound on the scrapheap then. He's been in training for a year and he still doesn't listen to a bloody word I say.

What kind of training are you going to give to an owner to be able pull a 65kg XL bully off should they be triggered into attacking someone? That is my understanding of why they are so dangerous, because they just keep going and the owner is also putting themselves at risk trying to stop them.

@TheHungryHungryLandsharks it’s completely defeatist to say it wouldn’t work because of money. There is always money if there is a will to find it.

Firstly the millions we are spending on housing these monsters could be redirected. Secondly, you would make dog owners pay for it either through a licensing fee or “dog tax”

After seeing an article about the number of attacks and deaths, I agree with you OP.

If they’re that dangerous it shouldn’t be left to individuals to decide, and it’s been seen that plenty of owners will insist their dog won’t hurt anyone, even after it does.

So change the legal system so you no longer have the right to appeal, go to court etc. Gotcha.

So now any copper can turn up say 'thats an illegal breed because I said so' and seize your dog and kill it.

Doesn't matter if your dog looks nothing like an illegal breed, Mr Coppers aunty lives two doors down and hates you, there is now no due process, no verification, no court to determine if the dog is a/an illegal breed and b/ a danger.. so the fact your dog looks nothing like an illegal breed is irrelevant, it is dead before you can even show the cutesy pics to the papers.

You don't think removing due process is a slippery slope?
You trust every single police officer in the country to be honest, unbiased etc etc?

Due to the nature of the law, a dog you bought legally, can grow into an illegal breed by the time its 10 months old. Because the law doesn't rely on genetics, it relies on measurements and personal opinion.

There was a 'pitbull amnesty' (only it wasn't because there were heavy threats, dogs seized in the streets, owners terrified) in Liverpool years ago - the damage that did to the relationship between residents and the police was beyond words, and things weren't great there to start with. People who would previously have helped police and turned to them for help stopped doing so. Children who had previously grown up respecting police learned that the police steal your pet and kill them, don't trust them. Is that good for society?

So if there has to be a dog tax, you are immediately disadvantaging those who are not financially well-off including homeless people (who often rely on their dogs to keep their mental health challenges at bay) and those on very low incomes who rely on funding to get treatment for their pets - because any sort of dog tax to fund this would almost certainly be astronomical to cover the cost that would be needed to implement such measures.

And the 'millions' spent on XL bullies, is not going to pay peoples salaries to enforce this. It's incredibly naive to think otherwise. Unless you think people should be informing on each other to the police to get this enforced?

As I said, whilst I understand your point, it's just not very well thought out.

The XL Bully situation is difficult as a lot of attacks now happen within peoples' homes - because the dog is permitted to be there, unmuzzled, and anyone resident or visiting the home is at risk. It's only just been formally set out that childminders who care for young children in their homes shouldn't have a banned dog breed (which sounds like something that should have been self-evident...).

https://www.devon.gov.uk/eycs/ofsted-and-banned-dog-breeds-for-childminders-and-childcare-on-domestic-premises/

Wow that is shocking - the fact that this needs to be spelled out suggests that there were in fact some child minders who DID have an XL? Madness…and madness of the parents to send them there.

When looking for childcare for my DC I didn’t consider a childminder that had any dog. You just can’t trust people to take the dangers they post as seriously as you do, especially when they are the owner as they will tend towards viewing it as a soppy angel.

So do I!! I was out walking my toddler and newborn and an owner had one on one of them long leads it came beaming over to me I was nearly in tears I was so scared. Their response? “Don’t worry she’s friendly” I’m sure they all are, until they aren’t. Honestly don’t know why anyone would buy a dog like that, hardly going to be for cuddles on the sofa is it!

Why should the public have to ensure your off lead dog? Such entitlement.

Yeah it's probably something that has been dealt with on a case by case basis before. It is legal to have an XL bully you've declared and had neutered and everything, but it may not be suitable to provide childcare for other peoples' small children with that dog in your house, in the same way as it's legal to have 30 labradors in your house but that doesn't mean your dog every square metre house is suitable to be a childminder at! Just formalising it in the guidance means they can point to it when telling you no.

Why shouldn't my dog be off lead when he's walking through our local woods as loads of other dogs are. He's well behaved and comes back when called. He liked to run through the bushes looking for squirrels. There's no laws around this?

Dogs or owners?

I watched an interview with a dog behaviour specialist. He was very well renowned. He said that he always blames bad owners/ training when
bites happen. Expect in the case of xl bullies,they are too aggressive and strong. He likened having one to having a lion and calling it just a big cat

If you look at the cost of keeping a dog I would suggest that if you can't afford an up front payment for a licence that covers your dog for its life then you cant afford the dog full stop.

I would suggest that the licence includes neutering and euthanasia at the end of the animals life.

I would suggest that before a potential owner goes anywhere near a dog they need a 'fit and proper' test and training.

I would also suggest separate and more stringent licensing for un neutered animals

Not all GSDs are suitable to be police dogs. My DIL's sister (a police officer) owns a GSD who didn't qualify to enter the force after training. Just because they are big doesn't make they automatically the right kind of dog for police work.

Why should the public have to tolerate football pitches, play areas for kids - I don't have children and I don't play football but provision is made for others to do so.

Why provide any public amenities at all - if you want kids to have somewhere to play out or space for 5 aside football on a Sunday, provide it yourself?

Oh, wait, thats not how society works.

The type of people who own these animals are not going to be buying licenses or going on training courses . Let’s just cull the bloody things. Dog/Owner - leave you to your decision!

all the xl bullies before they mauled someone to death were lovely family pets

its simple some dogs bite some go in for the attack until their prey is saved or dead you can not train that out of them

the breeds of dogs that go for the kill are never ever suitable pets and anyone who has these dogs and has young children are stupid ignorant fools

all xl bullies and those crossed with them should be pts

Should be a ban on these dogs in homes where under 18s live

I worry that even a muzzle could be ineffective if not properly fitted or strong enough.

I agree we need proper legislation and regulation around dog breeding and owning. I have two wolfhounds. They are trained not to approach strangers. They have excellent recall. But they are giants. I wouldn’t see a breed banned because of their size.
i saw recently a report that the ban of XL bullies hadn’t reduced the number of dog bites. Can’t remember where.

there's a small woman in my area who walks her massive pitty dog, she practically smirks as she parades it around and everyone knows theres no way she can control it just by weight difference. It makes my H rush back inside with our rough collie if he sees her.

My fears are-
the dog killing another dog
the dog killing the dumb lady owner
the dog killing a child or other person, we have so much foot traffic and a ton of children around.

It angers, terrifies and infuriates me-her poor decision affects how we all live now. I wish we'd ban them in my area of the midwestern USA 😟