Grandparents involvement

[Chunkychips23]

To preface, in no way do I think i’m owed childcare or that our parents shouldn’t enjoy their retirement. They’ve all worked hard and deserve lots of ‘me time’

AIBU to be a bit annoyed by being let down by Grandparents?

We don’t ask either of our mums to babysit that often. My mum has babysat three times in 2.5yrs, never in an evening, overnight or more than three hours. We chose to have children and their our responsibility for sure, but there are times we need support.

Bit of background:

My mum was brilliant when she first retired two years ago. She happily came up once a week to help out, especially as I was so unwell post birth with my first. I’ve never asked that of her, it was always something she wanted to do. Lately, she’s stopped visiting as frequently and when she does, appears completely bored and disinterested. She’ll offer to watch my children (two under two) for 30mins so I can speed clean my house, which I was very grateful for. But the last few times, she’s either sat on her phone talking to her friend whilst the kids are left unsupervised or doom scrolling on social media whilst my baby has helped himself to a packet of paracetamol from her handbag and is sat chewing the packet, whilst my toddler is crying for her attention.

She offered to have my toddler when I went into labour with my 2nd. During my final weeks of pregnancy, she’d decided to book herself a last minute holiday as it had been a couple of months since she’d been away. She knows how unpredictable babies can be. It was her literal career for several decades, but she said she wanted to go as it was quiet with her hobbies. I ended up going into labour whilst she was away and she threw a massive strop about how her holiday was ruined. My in-laws offered to look after our toddler but only until she got back as they had plans later in the day for dinner. You can imagine how stressful that was. My mum kept calling me to say how she was tired travelling back and why couldn’t I wait until she’d come back. My MIL kept texting my husband for updates on when my mum was coming or if he’d come back as soon as the baby was born or sooner if it came to close to their cutoff.

My MIL hasn’t been the most pleasant to me since having my 1st. Though she’s massively improved, she still occasionally throws a few sly comments my way. She came over relentlessly in the newborn period, not to help, but be hosted. 24hrs postpartum after a long labour and significant PPH, wanting to know what DH was serving for lunch. Proceeded to stay the entire day, telling me how unwell I looked, doing absolutely nothing to help, watching my husband fight for his life with a confused and overstimulated toddler and me barely able to walk. DH called it a day when she asked what was for dinner 😅 When she left, she said she was so glad she was able to help. That was a pattern until my youngest started wanting to explore rather than be held. Then she disappeared. Same with my 1st.

Because of all the above, we just don’t bother asking for support. If they offer it, great, but we don’t expect it.

I’ve been trying to be seen by the gynae team since my 2nd born was four weeks old with a suspected prolapse. DH was called into an urgent meeting the first attempt at an appointment so it was rescheduled. The 2nd date given, he was away with work and neither mums were available. The last two appointments I’d asked both mums who said to just give them the date and time and they’d make it work. Both cancelled last minute. The latest one, my mum promised she’d make it work and agreed to look after the kids for an hour so I could go. She text yesterday to say her friend has a birthday lunch so she can no longer have the kids as she doesn’t want to miss it and to ask MIL instead. I’ve asked MIL who said she’d do it, but has text today to say it’s her monthly WI country walk and she’s going to that instead. DH is trying to rearrange his work trip, but as it’s been booked months in advance is looking unlikely. The nature of his work means that he’s away often.

I just feel so let down by both mums. My Dad is useless and we’ve been low contact for several years. He remarried years ago and decided he wanted to focus on his new family. FIL is the eldest grandparent by 10yrs and isn’t the bio father of DH and his siblings, so didn’t come into their lives until they were early teens - he says he doesn’t have a clue what to do with children.

Ive mentioned to them before how we’re trying to arrange paid for childcare, but struggling. Both mums have rubbished that idea and said that’s what they’re here for, but have yet to step up. They see paid for childcare as embarrassing to me and to them (it implies that they don’t help apparently)

Both parents promised they’d support us, but haven’t. We’ve brought it up to both of them separately. It’s met with “you just don’t understand how busy I am in retirement” and “I’ve done my bit”

Ive expressed to my mum how frustrated I am. I don’t take advantage, I don’t ask unless I’m desperate, which she always says to do but there’s always something more important. She said she did it without help (she didn’t, we spent a lot of time at grandparents during the holidays) She said I’m being unreasonable to be annoyed as she’s raised her kids and worked for forty years in healthcare, it’s her time now. My MIL said something similar to my husband and told him to stop whining. Fine, but they both said yes yet again and then cancelled when a better offer came in. It’s literally an hour with their grandkids who they all make hardly any time to see. There’s no hands on care involved. The baby will be napping for the whole time and my toddler is quite content playing with his toys.

AIBU to feel let down? I don’t ask for regular childcare, we’re not asking so we can go out on a date together. I’m literally in so much discomfort, I need medical help. I’ve asked, but I can’t take the children with me to the appointment. It’s an hour out of their time.

Sorry if it’s a bit rambly and all over the place.

I feel quiet teary thinking about this op, your mother sounds like she worked in healthcare and would have some insight to your suffering and still cannot muster to help you for a medical problem.
I couldn't leave my daughter in that state sorry.

I'm so sorry, your family sound so flakey and selfish.
It does sound like your best bet for now is a paid babysitter but you shouldn't have to be doing that.
All four of my kid's grandparents are heavily involved and happy to spend time with them, and will regularly look after them, and my kids are not particularly easy. I'm very grateful to them.

You need to step back and let them get carers/let them do it themselves in. Don't run yourselves ragged when they aren't the kind of people who value family and help each other out. Put your own family first because your parents definitely have put themselves first. It's time to be "ill" for a while and say you can't help out or put in very robust boundaries. Lift to hospital appointment can become you'll need to get a taxi. If you both get ill, you won't be able to help them anyway and who will look after your children?

You are not being unreasonable BUT you must accept that this will not change for the better and be firm in finding a solution that works for you. Your mother and MIL can now whine all they want over you finding paid care, but for all their talk, they are neither reliable nor interested. Frankly, they both sound shockingly self-absorbed.

You cannot consider leaning on them, truly. Devote some time to finding someone you can afford, even if it's a mother's helper who can watch the kids while you are home, like a young teenage girl. There will absolutely be times when you need to call on someone and at this point, a paid option is the only realistic one.

Bother grandmothers have absolutely no room for opinions on what childcare you choose to find. These are your children, you need help, and they have proven over and over again that they are not willing to offer any.

They have treated you quite terribly and you owe them nothing, especially not an explanation. You are a grown adult and you can make your own decisions without their input.

Obs & gynae was her specialism. MIL used to be a nurse as well. My mum has changed so much since she retired. Always has been quite hard work, but there was a time she would have kicked down doors to get me to see a specialist. With my 1st baby I had a freak life threatening complication and she was all over it, getting second opinions, up at the hospital visiting me everyday, reading my charts and making sure I got the right care. The longer she’s been retired, the more self absorbed she’s become. She called me today to complain about how she’s still tired from her latest holiday and I couldn’t possibly relate as I’ve been comfy at home whilst shes travelling. DH and I literally spent most of the night tagging eachother in and out of the kids rooms last night. Baby is teething and going through yet another sleep regression, so was constantly waking and the toddler decided to have a two hour party for one in the early hours. DH fell asleep at his desk at work. But apparently that’s not as tiring as travelling 🙄 It’s like she’s lost the ability to emphasise with others. Occasionally she snaps out of whatever this is, but it’s becoming less and less.

My brother is coming up tomorrow for a debrief and is going to attempt to talk to her. She’s always been more inclined to listen to him than me.

Something I've found helpful for my own sanity has been to reframe how I think about things.

My MIL was supported heavily by her parents in raising DH. He saw them most days and they looked after him regularly as well as for longer spells eg to allow MIL to go away. For the longest time I couldn't understand how someone who had relied so much on support from others could be so upfront about not wanting to pay that forward.

The truth is that it would be crazy to expect someone who had needed so much help and delegated so much parenting to her own parents to step into any sort of help/support role with her grandchildren. Changing my thinking to understand this has helped me be less bitter about it. As I said before, I also have firm boundaries around her expectations from us re elderly care.

I think this is common when people retire. Especially if they retire before 60 or early. They seem to get really entitled and self absorbed. I’ve seen it a lot.

Both my mother and MIL became really unable to care or sympathise with the stress we were under raising young children with zero help. Their ability to casually enjoy their owns lives whilst watching us break was breath taking. They both now have dementia. It is quite clear now that the first signs of dementia in both of them was being completely selfish, self centric, difficult, unreasonable and a demanding pain in the side for many years. We used to be pulling our hair out in frustration about their behaviour which seemed so cruel and cold. Now we know why. Even though they were both very unbending and ‘on their terms only sort of people throughout life, dementia heightens the negative traits.

@Chunkychips23 can you afford to go to a nanny agency for the odd day? Or try www.childcare.co.uk

The system is set up to break the poor adult children who happen to live nearest. Both went in residential homes last year. You would think this offers freedom for us. It does not. We are hounded by doctors, social workers, banks, estate agents, office of public guardian, social ombudsman, pension companies, investment companies, wider family who criticise from afar and haven’t visited in years, private nursing homes who abuse, CHC assessors who lie and abuse, Careline callers, internet providers threatening action, utilities companies, carer workers from the care homes leaving about 5 voicemails a week for things for me to action….it literally never ends for us. A decade of this and showing no signs of slowing down. Which is why I say strongly to the OP - take serious note now. This is a marathon, not a sprint. Protect yourselves and your young family at all costs and don’t be me.

Op unfortunately you have the selfish grandparents they talk the talk but don’t walk it. I would try to find a local babysitting service because they don’t care to help. Op have you explained that unless the kids are looked after you won’t be able to attend the appointment. If you have I would rearrange the appointment when dh is home and leave them to it, I wouldn’t be visiting them or letting them call round I would be like fuck you all selfish people yes it’s our responsibility to look after our children but you keep offering but letting us down when it matters most. I would just say hey go and live your life it’s more important than your family. Honestly I would be furious it’s not like you’re going out socially. Most grandparents I know would do anything for there kids and grandkids because they mean the world to them. Op unfortunately the children are not important enough for them to give up a few hours of their time.

Both sets of grandparents are selfish, and don't seem to care about your health, letting someone down last minute for a medical appointment is awful; just remember how much help you got from them when they require help from you.

On the plus side you owe these folks nothing when they get too old to wipe their own asses.

Thank you! We’ve had a look and already created an account, looks like there are some promising options on there! We’d had some recommendations from friends with kids in the area (we’re still fairly new here and not fully established yet) but hadn’t had much joy with availability. That website is perfect, thank you so much!

I have a lot of empathy overall. But OP two things - you didn’t like the nursery environment and you don’t trust your brother.

Why didn’t you go with the nursery until you found one you liked more? And can your brother not be trusted for long enough for you to go for an appointment?

You don’t seem like you’re in a position to turn down help?

As for mother & MIL, I can’t understand either. I assume they have justified it in their own heads. I’m all for older people not being tied down by children, but booking holidays & hobbies when they are needed to help out is beyond self absorbed.
Maybe as both were nurses (I think) they’ve decided they’ve given enough?

It would easier if they weren't around or didn't promise to help rather than keep letting you down. How uncaring. Just remember this time when the mothers are old or infirm, bollocks to them.

I did consider cognitive decline, but having witnessed how she is with others and things of interest to her, I’m not convinced yet. I just don’t think she enjoyed the early years parenting as much as she says she did. Last time I saw her, I showed her a social media post about how amazing it would be to go back and hold your child as a baby/toddler again, just to live in that moment with them again, just for a day. She said absolutely not. She doesn’t miss that at all. Then here’s me nearly crying looking through pictures of my toddler as a newborn as he’s growing too fast 😂

The responses have been really helpful and made me realise I need to stop hoping that they’ll help us. And to take a step back and stop trying to facilitate contact. If they want to see my children, then it’s up to them to reach out and arrange. We’ve both allowed our mums to take the piss. Won’t help after promising, no apologies for letting us down, but expect all the fun dates like birthdays and Christmas, or wanting to see the kids when it suits them, regardless if it suits us, throwing strops and guilt tripping if we say no.

HI op on the plus side you won’t have to be obligated to attend special occasions with them every Mother’s Day, Christmas, Easter etc you can just be your family unit they really are incredibly selfish especially after saying yes then going for the better offer. I hate this when people think it’s ok to pull out of a commitment because they had a better offer the grandkids should be the best offer they get. I would be calling them both out on this tbh just remind them they said they could help and now there letting you down when you really need them. With your mum I would Just say that she thinks her friends bday lunch is more important than your health even though she promised you.

Ok so sadly I know a lot about dementia and other brain diseases. With dementia, the very first signs are often ten years before any of the better known symptoms, such as short term memory loss. I had nurses insinuate I was silly, and roll their eyes at me only last year, telling me that my mother had no signs of dementia. People with dementia can mask it really well in front of medics and friends and others. I’d been pleading with people to listen to me for about 5 years. Yes 5. Guess what - when they finally gave in to a CT scan it showed an extremely diseased and dementia riddled brain in mid to late stage. To the point the consultant said she was confused my mum was not worse. What she meant was - she was confused that my mother did not show more memory loss. They all focus on memory loss, when it’s rarely the first symptom. The first signs of dementia are often behavioural. Ten years before memory loss shows up. The thing is - that behaviour fluctuates. Second by second, minute by minute, week by week. They act so badly or unreasonable or strangely for a split second, then are immediately back to what you consider normal. So you tell yourself you imagined it. Or you force yourself to find a reasonable explanation. It’s the fact they act normally most of the time that throws people off thinking it’s not cognitive decline. Cognitive decline is not a straight line down. It goes up and down and back up. But over the years it will start to drop in bigger steps. Even then you’ll question your own sanity when they say or do something totally batshit, but have the ability to immediately be nice and polite and interested and kind to others. THIS Jekyll and Hyde rollercoaster is the hallmark of dementia in the early stages.

Our mothers also only wanted the good and fun stuff and were extremely vocal in their dissatisfaction if they couldn’t turn up unannounced whenever they wanted, making sly digs and comments, while sitting ready to be hosted and waited on hand and foot. Yet never ever helped out in any meaningful way. They actively made our day worse by turning up. We felt we had an extra child to cope with most of the time. It’s terrible and I’m still devastated when I think about how ill we felt at times with exhaustion and they did not care. My husband and I now hard this really sad thing where we say, “Remember when our mothers were completely self obsessed a*s to us and made our lives a misery and we knew it was dementia and no one would listen to us”. It sounds flippant but it actually comes from a place of complete devastation and heartbroken acceptance. They are still the same now but they can’t manipulate us as much living in residential care.

I truly wish you the best and hope you find a way through. It’s so hard and you and your children deserve much more.

@user555999000 Our mothers also only wanted the good and fun stuff and were extremely vocal in their dissatisfaction if they couldn’t turn up unannounced whenever they wanted, making sly digs and comments, while sitting ready to be hosted and waited on hand and foot

And you are saying that this is due to dementia? Do you feel this was specific to your parents only, or applies across the board to any parent who does this?

Last time I saw her, I showed her a social media post about how amazing it would be to go back and hold your child as a baby/toddler again, just to live in that moment with them again, just for a day. She said absolutely not. She doesn’t miss that at all. Then here’s me nearly crying looking through pictures of my toddler as a newborn as he’s growing too fast

That’s not abnormal though, some people would feel like that, some won’t. My kids are adults, and if I had a choice of ‘living in the moment for just a day’ between having them sit in front of me as an adults, or going back to them as a baby/toddler, I’d definitely choose the adult. While I’ve always loved them, I don’t miss the baby/toddler years at all, very, very glad those years are gone and no desire to relive even for a day.

Yeah I agree with this. I LOVE my son. The thought of the baby days makes me shudder. He cried non-stop. I was suicidal (and I'm not exaggerating) from the sleep deprivation.

I actually can't even hold other people's babies now. Friends try to hand me their babies and it leaves me cold. Objectively, babies are cute. But I have no desire to ever, ever go back to those days!!

Ahh the sort of grandparents who want to look like they’re good grandparents and have the relationship/rewards of one’s but don’t want to put in the work. Then can’t understand why the grandchild doesn’t bother with them

• We had one set pushing there way into hospital and visiting at home the next day to get photos. They want Easter, Birthday, Mother’s Day, fathers days, Christmas and an hour on NY to get the photos to show off. We literally don’t see them aside from this.
• Another set proclaim they can’t afford to visit in the holidays (holiday cover) but can afford to travel the world for 6 month s of the year. It’s won’t, not can’t
• The other two single ones at least are honest. They don’t pretend nor do they expect

I’ve been in hospital with a really sick baby at 4 months and when we could go home, we asked for a lift as I didn’t have a car seat (ambulance in). Refused to help even though they weren’t doing anything (had checked first)

Not all families are the same and you can change this for future generations. I’ve seen first hand those parents that adult children popped into for a quick cup of tea multiple days a week. That turned into supportive grandparents when the kids came along. Now looks like a couple of days of school runs and after school care as well as support each weekend. The bond and care is visible to see. Even those grandparents are my DD’s favourite ones and they’re not even official ones

I'd be so upset too, how useless.

Side note : take your kids! Don't miss medical appointments because you have your children with you. Explain you have noone to have them.

In this instance I would put the children in a double buggy as they are so little forgive rules on screen time, take them with me and put them something on to each and snacks too! I get they don’t allow children but for your own health you need to be seen. I very much doubt they will turn you away if you turn up with them whereas asking you might get no!

Not exactly. I am saying that my experience was that two individuals who had objectively lived most of their lives on their terms, rarely went out of their way for others m, and actively avoided anything that meant effort, whilst expecting and demanding a huge amount of attention and hosting themselves, are the type of personalities that IF they develop dementia are going to be next level difficult in their behaviour. Dementia can make people extremely unreasonable, unable to risk assess, socially inappropriate and behave in a way that causes others great stress and trauma. Even if you tell a person with dementia kindly, “Heah, when you said
X/did Y, it made me feel really stressed/hurt/frustrated/bewildered” they often don’t have the ability to see past their own immediate wants. If they were selfish in behaviour and outlook before the disease, you are in for a really rocky ride if thy get it. Dementia turns up the dial on negative traits.

For example, and this is just one out of many. My father died when I was heavily pregnant. He died out of the blue and I had to agree to them turning off life support on Christmas Eve. I got home late and was hysterical with grief. I also had a toddler who I had to try to keep it together for. My husband called his mother to say I was so ill from grief and so sleep deprived from siting in a chair at the hospital all week, that we did not want her to arrive on Christmas Day until 2pm as I needed time to rest and recover and grieve. I needed alone time. We didn’t even want any guests that day but we did it for my MIL because she had a history of sulking if she did not get the Christmas Day she expected from us. In my experience people with dementia get more and more selfish and determined to do what THEY are interested in and what they want on a whim, regardless of anything else that others may be going through. So what did she do despite being told directly to not show up until 2 pm at the earliest? She breezed in my house at 11 am. I was catatonic. I was undressed, weeping, hadn’t had breakfast yet, was trying to dress my toddler etc. My heart dropped to my feet when she bulldozed her way into my house. When I told her how upset I was that she ignored our request for space until 2 pm, she cried and flounced off saying she’d go home then if she wasn’t wanted. My dad wasn’t even in the mortuary yet, and it was all still about her needs. At the time, I remember me saying to my husband that she must have a brain condition if she thought that sort of behaviour was acceptable. I was livid and distressed. I think she would have put herself first that day, dementia or no dementia, but I do think her ability to be so cold and heartless and NOT CARE AT ALL when she saw the hurt she caused me is classic dementia behaviour.