Do other parents see car seats just as cosmetic / a polite courtesy?

[Octagonchecker]

Since my DD7 started school we have had 3 occasions where she was offered a lift somewhere by another parent, but they only had one car seat, and when I said oh no she can't travel without a car seat, they said my DD could have the car seat and they would have their own child ride without one. As if the car seat is not essential, and it's polite to give it to the guest, the way you might give up your seat on the sofa. On these occasions they looked at me like I was a right weirdo when I said don't worry we'll walk. But I would never be happy seeing another little kid ride without a car seat and potentially come to harm so that my DD could have their seat!

DD has been invited to a birthday party where the mum plans to pick up 4 of them from school and take them to a venue in a different part of town (will be on the dual carriageway). DD absolutely wants to go to this party, it's a close friend. But there is no way the mum has 4 car seats, the birthday girl is an only child. So I assume the plan is to just not have car seats. But all the other mums are saying yeah sounds great! I don't know how to bring it up without sounding like a total party pooper since nobody else has mentioned it. And I feel like if I did bring it up she might say that my DD can have her child's car seat and she will ride without, like every other time this has happened? I can't take DD to the venue myself though because I've got my younger one to pick up from nursery during the party and DH has the car that day anyway so it's not an option. I'm wondering whether I'm the weirdo in this situation.

We've done that a few times - my son was almost 135cm by 7 but we kept him in a booster another year. A few times we forgot the second booster when giving his friend a lift so he (happily) sat on the seat as his friend is much smaller than him so the maths meant he should be in the seat.

I'd get a cheap booster and just send her to school with it. I have just now gotten the spare boosters out of the car as my son is now 9 - for years and years I tried to always have an extra one in the back. The time I gave 5 7 year olds a lift to my son's party, 3 of them were still in boosters so I made sure to have 3 ready to go.

Most of my son's friends were out of the booster before he was - some definitely a bit too early, but that was their business.

Both of them were the same height as me by age 11, I'm 165cm so yes they were tall. But there were always a couple of others in the class a similar height.

I realise your child is older now. Just FWIW for anyone else reading or if you do this in future, always put the seatbelt over a shorter/younger child's shoulder, not under their arm. It will protect him better from injury that way, even if he's annoyed by it rubbing his neck. He could put his hood or collar over the edge of the seatbelt to shield his neck from discomfort. It is far more dangerous to put it under the arm as this allows the upper body too much movement which gives a higher chance of head and spinal cord injuries, but the other problem is that the seatbelt being here is a high risk for causing internal bleeding, either from pressure on the abdomen/chest or broken ribs. The belt being over the shoulder is not a risk to the neck, even if the child is too short, and while it can cause a broken collarbone (at any age), that heals more easily than ribs or internal organs.

The official exemption is threefold - unexpected, necessary, and over as short a distance as possible. It's meant for practicality, so that a driver is not penalised for doing the right thing e.g. in the case that a child would otherwise be stranded with no other way to get home, or needed to get to hospital urgently.

Are you sure about wearing the seatbelt the normal way an adult would, on the neck? I always thought it was safer for it to be under the arm of a child because it could damage their neck in a crash? My mum always told me to put it under my arm as a kid as “it could chop my head off” if we crashed!!

Haha yes. The rear-facing parents are so insufferable. Yes, make your children sick on every car journey until they're almost teens just so you can bask in your own sense of self-righteousness and secret schadenfreude that something horrific may happen to other people's children who don't follow the same rules.

Bertie Botts is like a car safety expert, knows all about car seats and safety, I have seen many of her posts, always measured and kind and knowledgeable.

@User8457363 I don't rear face but some of my DC friends' parents do, they all want the best for their kids although agreed there is a subset that are very vocal.

Many car manuals actually say 150cm minimum height for no car seat now. Mine definitely does. Legal ≠ safe.

Im under 150cm, I used to sit on a wedge type cushion in my old car, but I have a newer car now and the wedge cushion means my feet aren't in a conformable position for the pedals.
And with regard to pp the seat belt has always been on the side of my neck, ive never really thought about it

DS10 is still below 135. He takes his booster cushion when he travels with friends. That way he is safe and no one has to deal with the fallout of a hefty driver fine for children not being properly restrained.

DS12 is 145. He still uses a booster cushion in our family car so the seat belt fits comfortably. In my runaround he goes without as the seat belt fits properly.
It all really depends on safety and correct fitting of the seat belt.

If you're in a situation where someone offers your child a lift but doesn't have a spare car seat, and you're unable to provide your own, then it's perfectly fine to politely decline so that no child goes without.

In the second scenario where the event is in the future, surely it makes sense to say "thanks, would you like me to bring my car seat or do you have a spare?" For all you know, the parent may be assuming you will provide one.

I am absolutely 100% sure. (I can back it up with studies). This is a myth and it has unfortunately injured children in crashes.

I understand why your mum was worried about that, because it feels logical that it might work that way, but there has never been a single case of a child's neck being injured (directly) by a diagonal belt, aside from minor grazing/bruises or injuries associated with too-early forward facing in general, but injuries from improper use of the diagonal belt is a common and known injury pattern for children aged 3-8 in seatbelts, because it is very common for children in this age range to be uncomfortable in adult seatbelts, and for either the child themselves, or well-meaning adults worried about neck injury to suggest putting the diagonal part of the belt behind them or under their arm. The problem here is that under crash forces the belt rides down and essentially the child's body wraps totally around both parts of the belt, putting all the force of the crash on that one middle point, which is not good as it contains a lot of squishy internal organs which you don't want crushed, but it also puts a lot of pressure on their spinal cord, which includes the neck. A seatbelt worn properly, even if it is too large, is positioned to spread the force across their body evenly which reduces the impact of that force, as well as allowing the spine less movement, which also reduces chance/severity of injury. They actually do this very well (albeit better for adults who fit it properly!)

This video has a computer simulation of the two different seatbelt positions, showing how the seatbelt slides down when it's not held in place by the shoulder. I know the simulation has the child in a booster, but it is exactly the same mechanism of injury.

It is best for a child who has outgrown a rear facing or forward facing harness seat to be in a full high back booster, but if this is not available, a backless booster is much better than nothing, and if this is not available, then a seatbelt worn as an adult would is the very safest option, and is MUCH better than no restraint at all, or than wearing the seatbelt improperly, using items (like a cushion) as a makeshift "booster", or sharing a seatbelt with an adult.

This is not often talked about because rightly, most people say well the solution for a belt being on the neck is that the child still needs to be in some kind of booster seat. That is correct, and it is by far the safest solution but I think it is also helpful to be aware of what the hierarchy of "safer than" options is when you're in a situation where best practice isn't possible.

A lot of the school mums called me exhausting because I insist on car-seats. Things only got better after a girl broke her pelvis in a crash with one of the ‘cool’ mums. Some parents literally need to see a child hurt to be able to apply common sense