16yo ds seeing much older man in London, ds1 has made it 100x worse, dont know what to do know

[kettleonbutnoidea]

i dont even know where to start tbh this has all come out in the last couple of weeks and i feel like im constantly on the back foot

my ds2 is 16 (17 in summer) and has been talking to someone online for a while which I DIDNT KNOW about until recently. turns out its a man in his 30s living in london. ds says they have “met a few times” which actually means hes been getting the train down there on his own. i only found this out because his brother saw messages on his phone

before anyone says yes ive had the talk about safety etc but hes insisting its all fine and that hes happy. says im making it weird and that age is just a number which hasnt exactly reassured me

then ds1 (22) completely lost it. tracked the man down online and basically messaged him threatening him. i dont know exactly what was said but it was bad enough that the man replied saying he’d go to the police if it carried on. now ds2 is furious with all of us, says weve embarrassed him and is barely speaking to me

since then hes even more secretive and has said hes going to stay in london “for a bit” over easter. i feel sick writing that but i dont know if i can physically stop him and im worried if i push too hard he’ll just go anyway and cut me off

im stuck between thinking this is completely wrong and also not wanting to drive him further away

AIBU to be this worried or do i need to back off a bit now its all blown up?

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that 16 is an adult and therefore nothing t to see here, but rather, if you have determined and independent 16yo, save from locking them in a room I guess, what more can you do? It’s a genuine question because I see it on here a lot. It’s a tricky age for sure, and in my mind, the best thing you can do is keep them close, keep communication open and hope that if anything goes wrong they will either have the knowledge to make safe choices or get help from someone who can.

A sensible and well rounded 16-18 yo is likely to push boundaries and attempt to exert some level of autonomy. Actually that is a really good development stage and shows they are developing their sense of identity and problem solving skills. A 16-18yo who has no autonomy, is reliant on their carers for all decisions and has limited life experience for their age, is not the flex that some posters seem to think it is.

In any event, what the OP is dealing with is horrific with no easy solution. Your best bet is to get advice from the relevant authorities and keep communication with your son as open as possible.

Just because your son is 16 and quite independent doesn’t mean you stop being responsible for making sure he's ok. Why are you so scared to talk to him?

Arent you reading OPs posts, he shuts down when she tries to talk about it.

I’m only in my early 30s and this was in the late 2000s so it wasn’t that long ago. It is interesting how much has changed in such a short time. Reading these replies makes me dread to think what would have happened had my (overprotective) parents found out.

I do think having those sorts of experiences were invaluable to a lot of people. I have friends who had the same sorts of situations when they were that age too - who didn’t really fit into any friendship group at school, had no real friends and were sensible and mature beyond their years. It does feel like the age gap insulated us from judgement and kept a degree of separation from us being outed.

Whereas now I don’t think I know anyone my age who would even go for a 20 year old student.

What this shit show of a thread has shown so far is that you really do need to engage with some professionals. You need to seek advice and support asap from people who know the law.

Yes. He shuts down and she becomes too worried to continue the conversation. She needs to find a different approach and stop her fear of him “running away from home” from doing the right thing as a mother.

Some people have said children's services will be bothered with concerns around possible exploitation (the travelling, gifts etc) this is simply not true. There are experts within the service who can advise. I would contact them if I were you OP.

Sorry OP but you have your head in the sand. Why aren’t you going through the stuff DS1 has found? Are you worried about what you’ll see? You need to see it, and know what you’re dealing with. You need to face this head on. Talk to DS1, he seems to be much more protective of his brother than you are at the moment.

So set out each step of what she says and does to help her then?

I think if your son is independent, has left school, is in college and has a part time job then he’s firmly in that 16-18 bracket, which is very different to being a 16 year old about to sit his GCSEs - which is the impression I had from the OP.

This is a very transitional time of life and whilst he can make mistakes and potentially be influenced, I’m not sure I feel that you can be groomed in the strictest sense in this stage of his life.

The relationship with the older man would make anyone uncomfortable - but if he’s already living a life where he gets to “just stay over” at a mates or pop into the Birmingham whenever he fancies, I think he has a certain level of freedom that you can’t suddenly roll back. It sounds like he’s the sort of teen who is allowed to just do what he likes, rather than the someone who has two parents watching him like a hawk, and I think that makes a difference.

If he’s home now he’s safe. I would stay calm and speak to him when you can - it doesn’t have to be tonight. All of this has come out because his brother saw his messages over his shoulder. He’s probably embarrassed.

It may be a crime to groom a 17 year old but getting the CPS to bring charges is a different matter.

I am an adopter and have known several adopters whose teenage children have got into all sorts of situations with older adults and I can't think of any cases where there has been a prosecution.

What sometimes happens is that services work with the young person to try to keep them safe, make better choices etc. But I genuinely don't know any cases where they prosecute the other party.

I stand by my earlier comment that 16/17 is a grey area - in practice if not in law.

She needs to reframe it and tell him how worried she is. If he thinks he is so mature then he needs to listen to her with maturity and pause and then respond with maturity. She is his mum and he should at least engage anf listen to what she has to say with respect. And then she in turn will listen to him.

That it’s her job as a mum to worry and check he’s ok. That it is not normal for a 30ish year old man to be interested in a 16 yo. That whatever the law says about consent is one thing, but checking that there’s no emotional or control issues in the relationship has no age limit. That people do it all the time for friends and siblings and children and parents of any age. This situation is no different.

That the man seems unnecessarily aggressive/defensive threatening the police and that means in turn she is worried about her son. Theres 20th years life experience between the two people: her son and the man. That means 30ish yo men don’t usually want to spend time with someone so young whether they think they are “mature” or not.

You realise two sentences into that little speech, he's walked off dont you?

And that by the sound of it, the general gist of all of that she has already said to him and he has dismissed it and now believes she 'doesnt understand'

You start any conversation with 'Im worried about you and want you to be safe' you're telling him that his choice of partner is not safe and he will switch off.

You fog and tell the police that you have no evidence, no payment, teen over 16 and you listen to mr police tell you that there is nothing they can do. No crime is proven and until their is signs of money or drugs they can’t do anything

i don’t have time to look for your username but have you given any practical advice or are you just criticising others?

Yes I have but Im not the one criticising OP for not doing enough or taking action or not speaking to him. I think you'll find that was you.

Police territory definitely

You sound completely out of the loop? How have you not noticed the money, clothes and attendence ?

You ssid your hesd is all over the place but kindly OP you sound disinterested until your other son got involved. Get your head in the game as your don is showing very obvious signs of being groomed. Its really common with young teens whose parents just dont notice them

I manage a children’s services team and this should certainly go for a safeguarding referral and a call to the police . Yes the age of consent is 16 but if you child (which he still is legally) has been exploited (which grooming is ) then that is a crime as your son cannot consent to this. 16 is a hard age legally/ehtically but you are not powerless , utilise support from college/police and your local children’s service . They can all help you plan to make this safer if not an exploitative relationship, they can ensure all safeguarding checks are done and that keep safe work is done with your son.

And you'd strat this would you?

Your local MASH police would agree to attend would they?

So you asked chat gpt with someone personal info when they asked here & have actually received all said advice.

some people are incapable of thinking for themselves

i wouldn’t Strat at this point , I would open for assessment for safety planning , complete a child exploitation tool and have this referred straight onto MACE for multiagency information sharing and planning focused around exploitation - pending the outcome of that and information shared that potentially Strat.

I wouldnt open it at all, it would be early help at the most, who would look at offering advice and guidance to mum and offering the young person some support around relationships.

I advised mum upthread to report to police but not to expect outcomes from them, our local CETCSE team would not consider this anything to get involved in at all.

Different areas have different ways of working , we don’t have a MASH in our area so it sounds like we have different pathways in place , so telling you the route we take in my LA. Ad even if it is ‘just’ early help -that is support for Mum and her DS , and multiagency information sharing that can take place and signposting/escalation as required.

Whilst your professional judgement would be not to open , mine would be to do so , there are signs exploitation and cross county borders could also be indicators of trafficking.

This may not be the case but by seeking help and referring to the relevant services will allow for the right information checking and support for this family to be put in place regardless of the level .

I think the big Qn is why did you hide it and lie about it?

The thing you need to do is invite this man round. Even if DS was 15.. its unlikely it would be prosecuted when DS consented (sickening though that is) so I think you need to keep DS close for his own sake and youll do that easier if youre welcoming. It'll help you assess the man and know what youre dealing with. Even if the idea upsets you.