16yo ds seeing much older man in London, ds1 has made it 100x worse, dont know what to do know

[kettleonbutnoidea]

i dont even know where to start tbh this has all come out in the last couple of weeks and i feel like im constantly on the back foot

my ds2 is 16 (17 in summer) and has been talking to someone online for a while which I DIDNT KNOW about until recently. turns out its a man in his 30s living in london. ds says they have “met a few times” which actually means hes been getting the train down there on his own. i only found this out because his brother saw messages on his phone

before anyone says yes ive had the talk about safety etc but hes insisting its all fine and that hes happy. says im making it weird and that age is just a number which hasnt exactly reassured me

then ds1 (22) completely lost it. tracked the man down online and basically messaged him threatening him. i dont know exactly what was said but it was bad enough that the man replied saying he’d go to the police if it carried on. now ds2 is furious with all of us, says weve embarrassed him and is barely speaking to me

since then hes even more secretive and has said hes going to stay in london “for a bit” over easter. i feel sick writing that but i dont know if i can physically stop him and im worried if i push too hard he’ll just go anyway and cut me off

im stuck between thinking this is completely wrong and also not wanting to drive him further away

AIBU to be this worried or do i need to back off a bit now its all blown up?

@kettleonbutnoidea

The police ARE concerned about grooming of young people, including youths and young adults. For example, this from the Met - they state: “ Grooming is an offence. If you suspect a person is being groomed, even if you’re not sure, please tell someone.” https://www.met.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/gr/grooming/#:~:text=Are%20they%20being%20secretive%20about,registered%20with%20the%20emergencySMS%20service%20.

@LiviaDrusillaAugusta why not run it past Chat Gpt? It’s started a logical thread. It’s a good way to communicate with both of OPs sons and can be used to reflect on any conversations, aid the younger son to open up and not to alienate either of them. It is also has good safeguarding protocols. So yes I’m an advocate of it.

Telling the guy she'll report him if her son goes to stay with him without permission isn't even close to a threat that would cause police action. It's making it clear he has a family who are closely involved with this. I expect she may well report it if her son goes, and police won't have a problem with her doing that even if they do very little - god knows my aunt was accusing the guy my cousin moved in with of everything under the sun, even if it didn't come to anything after the welfare visit.

And, as I said, that's the nuclear option to be used only if all calm communication has failed, this man has refused to share any of his information or meet her, and it seems likely her son is about to vanish to meet a man she doesn't know at an address she doesn't know. The first steps are communication.

Haven’t RTFT but… the OP says her son is 16 going on 17, so why are people suggesting she go to the police?! The son is over the age of consent - what can the police actually do?

Well at least DS1 would have company in the cells 🙄 How ridiculous. And that sort of behaviour is almost guaranteed to bring the younger son and his lover closer.

Report to the police if you want but going all Charles Bronson on him is going to backfire for you.

I'm not sure you read my post very well.

Why do people think they can’t do or say anything if their 16 year old says they are doing something?!? When did 16 become a fully fledged adult with no boundaries set by parents?! And what’s with all the “I hadn’t even thought about the fact he might have been 15 when it started” “I’ve not properly looked at the information my eldest found” “I’ve not properly spoken with my son” etc. this needs ATTENTION.

But what can she report the man for? Having a consensual sexual relationship with someone over the age of consent is not a crime, is it?

If it's part of a pattern it absolutely could and the ds1 has already got the ball rolling on this. The man would probably shrug it off seeing as again it is not actually illegal, probably tell the son and then the o.p jas a son in London she never hears from

From personal experience that I put in my actual post, police will do a welfare check if a 16 year old goes to stay with a much older man and the parent suspects something bad. Very unlikely anything will come of it, as I also pretty clearly explained in my post.

i didn't suggest she -did- report him to the police, my whole post was explaining they would likely do nothing and that calm communication and getting safety information is the best option.

i suggested telling the guy she - would - report as a final nuclear option to be used only if he's refused any communication / safety information and it seems like her son is about to vanish. It's not harassment or a threat to tell him that she's willing to go to the police as a concerned mother.

People like this are sneaky and clever and will use the law to their advantage

He only has to say that OP and her older son are committing hate crimes toward him because of his sexuality and bingo, OP and the older son are the perpetrators toward him all of a sudden

It might have been different with your aunt because that bloke may not have made a complaint about her.

This bloke might make a complaint about OP and he'll play the victim.

OP has to play it softly

I would also, honestly, probably get DS1 to give me the guys online details, do some research to find out as much as I could about him and then if no meeting I'd forthcoming message him to say I've found out where he lives (even if that's a lie) and that if DS2 goes to stay with him I'll report him to the police for abduction, grooming etc. all that may not be true at all but the thought of a police raid is likely to put the guy off pretty quick. It's a nuclear option so save it for if communication with your son goes nowhere and you're genuinely worried he'll vanish.

Yes I did thanks. Bearing in mind the older son has already messaged him threatening him, it’s got the potential to backfire.

of course he may be a bad person but if he hasn’t committed a crime then the harassment from the family is going to give him the opportunity to play the victim, both to the police and the OP’s son.

On top of DS1’s threats, it’s not going to look great though.

In fact she should go to the police if she suspects a crime. But waters are muddied by written threats having been sent to him

quick update as a few people have asked similar things

before all this i thought he was just going into birmingham with mates or “staying over” at a friends from work. hes always been quite independent so i didnt question it as much as i probably should have. hindsight is a lovely thing

gifts, not loads but now im thinking about it there have been a few things i didnt really question at the time. new trainers a while back he said he got cheap, a hoodie ive never seen before, and he suddenly always seems to have money for trains which i assumed was his wages but maybe not all of it is

hes at college, first year, doing a mix of courses (not really settled on anything yet). attendance has dipped a bit last few weeks which i had put down to normal teenage stuff but now im not so sure

he does have friends his own age yes, including a couple of boys he’s said are gay as well so its not like this is the only person he could talk to about that side of things which is part of why im struggling to understand it

i asked him earlier what they actually do when hes there and he just got defensive and said “normal stuff, watch films, go out, chill” and then shut the conversation down. i didnt push it further because it was already going that way

as for the man, from what ds has said he works in “media” which could mean anything. ds1 found a linkedin i think but i havent properly gone through it yet

hes barely spoken to me tonight so im no further on really, just more questions if anything

i keep going between thinking i need to act fast and then worrying ill make it worse again

sorry if im repeating myself a bit just trying to keep up

Agreed. My DS is 16 and hasn’t even kissed a girl yet! Admittedly he can be pretty young for his age but good… He’s a child! I don’t give a fuck what the law says re semantics dividing grooming and exploitation. If it makes everyone feel better, someone in their 30s having sex with a 16 year old is always exploiting them.

I’d go further and say someone in their 30s having sex with a person under 21 is exploiting them. As I said earlier in the thread, I teach this age bracket and they are children (even at 20 for the most part to be frank!)

There’s a very clear exertion of power between a fully fledged adult and child. The law needs changing. If any man or woman touched my child I would be as furious as OP’s oldest DS who, by the way, seems to be the only rational member of the family!

there seems to be a theme on this thread of people thinking the police will do something much more dramatic than they actually will.

explaining to this man that as a concerned mother if her son leaves without her permission to stay with him while he is refusing to provide any safeguarding information she will have no choice but to speak to the police isn't going to get her 'thrown in the cells' as whoever claimed, or accused of a hate crime. The police are capable of dealing with worried mothers, they do it a lot.

and, as I've said repeatedly, I'm not actually suggesting reporting him as it's unlikely to come to anything, and I'm only suggesting the above as a final nuclear option if it really seems her son is about to vanish.

good grief.

No but if I wouldn’t be stupid enough to threaten someone.

OP said he threatened him and the bloke said he would call the police.

look he may well be a total cunt but giving him evidence of harassment potentially isn’t the brightest thing to do.

Threats are not ‘hurty words’. I take it you have never been threatened by message?

Ugh. This NOT the right thread to be the Cool Parent. Most of the replies are absolutely correct and well-intentioned.

I was that 16 year old and I wish my mum had kicked down doors, contacted the police, ANYTHING to save me from the 'relationship' I thought I wanted at 16 with a 35 year old predator, who later became my stalker.

In years to come your son will recognise that he has been groomed and abused and unfortunately one of his main questions and focuses will be on what you did to support and protect him

This is absolutely my experience. My mum did little more than pay lip service to 'stopping it.' The man who groomed me worked on her as well. She did nothing after that. I'd rather have hated her for 6 months for 'ruining it' than feel like she let me down so profoundly for decades longer while I recovered from the whole horrific thing.

My heart goes out to you OP.

You dont need to 'good grief' me, I havent mentioned anyone being thrown in cells.

I very calmly and conversationally set out how these people work if they see fit to do so and will twist stuff round to make the protector of the children the enemy and make themselves a victim. And yes, the police have a responsibility to look into complaints of hate crimes, and they do this with alarming regularity devoid of common sense. Its a possibility which isnt necessary for OP to be dealing with. Getting her son on board with her and re connecting with him is her main priority.

OP. When I was 18 my best friend turned up at my door one night sobbing his heart out. He had been groomed / exploited (I really don’t care about the semantics here) by a man in London who had taken him to nice places and bought him things we could never ever afford. We were WC kids from the North. My best friend was diagnosed with HIV. Prior to meeting this man (who was also in his 30s), he was a virgin. The whole thing was fucked, he’ll be on medication for the rest of his life now obviously but he’s also fortunate it didn’t happen 20 years prior…

Contact the police and just ask for advice. Mention the suspected gifts, mention this man’s age, look through his LinkedIn, scour the internet for any other info on him. No reasonable human being in their 30s is sexually attracted to a 16 year old child.

I only mentioned the cells as I was being facetious

You can’t stop him going so why not offer to take him, meet this man for yourself and go from there.
Calling the police or locking him in his bedroom will achieve nothing but your child hating you and becoming even more distant.
He’s made it quite clear he can’t come to you with any issues or feelings, there must be a reason for that. Try to work on it, sit down and have a chat without judgement.

Kindly OP, report him if you have concerns. Your son is not going to open up to you if he has feelings for this man.

Let the police deal with it rather than tying yourself in knots (which isn’t good for you)