16yo ds seeing much older man in London, ds1 has made it 100x worse, dont know what to do know

[kettleonbutnoidea]

i dont even know where to start tbh this has all come out in the last couple of weeks and i feel like im constantly on the back foot

my ds2 is 16 (17 in summer) and has been talking to someone online for a while which I DIDNT KNOW about until recently. turns out its a man in his 30s living in london. ds says they have “met a few times” which actually means hes been getting the train down there on his own. i only found this out because his brother saw messages on his phone

before anyone says yes ive had the talk about safety etc but hes insisting its all fine and that hes happy. says im making it weird and that age is just a number which hasnt exactly reassured me

then ds1 (22) completely lost it. tracked the man down online and basically messaged him threatening him. i dont know exactly what was said but it was bad enough that the man replied saying he’d go to the police if it carried on. now ds2 is furious with all of us, says weve embarrassed him and is barely speaking to me

since then hes even more secretive and has said hes going to stay in london “for a bit” over easter. i feel sick writing that but i dont know if i can physically stop him and im worried if i push too hard he’ll just go anyway and cut me off

im stuck between thinking this is completely wrong and also not wanting to drive him further away

AIBU to be this worried or do i need to back off a bit now its all blown up?

Yeah that’s a pedophile .. wtf

Agreed. Batshit someone can be convicted of having a naked image of a 16 year old but can legally have sex with them. I think this thread would be completely different if OP’s child was a girl.

No.
I’d say exactly the same regardless of the sexes of the individuals involved.

Involving the police (when she isn’t sure any laws have been broken) will cause further harm to her relationship with her son at a time when it’s critical that he feels a strong support system from his family.

It wouldnt be any different at all. There isnt evidence that anyone in authority can take action on regarding the man.

OPs son might agree to engage with support around healthy relationships, but she has prepared him a lot about this she says anyway, so she has worked to do this herself.

Exactly this!

This must be incredibly difficult for you all. I remember meeting much older men while in Sixth Form but this was well over thirty years ago so attitudes meant I was not going to be finding a boyfriend my own age. Some of the time it was just teenage horniness and wanting a quick shag but there was a also an element of wanting to learn what being a gay man was all about. But again these were the times of Section 28 and pre-internet so there weren't many other sources of info about. Does your son have gay friends his own age? Gay mens' sexual health needs are different so he needs to have the resources to keep himself safe (PREP use is very common for example).

It must be incredibly difficult to hold it together but I would be trying to get as much information from him as possible about what is going on. Not sexual details but what do they do together? Do they go out to pubs and clubs? Or just stay at home? Does he meet his friends? Where is he staying? Does this guy have a stable job/home? Thinking back to teenage me, I would definitely have dug my heels in (I ended up leaving home at 17) so I can understand why you aren't going in all guns blazing.

Saying all that it is very odd that this guy didn't run a mile when DS1 warned him off so this is setting off alarm bells. I bet the older guy isn't letting friends know this is going on - they would be quick to make it clear this wasn't acceptable. It's hard (my kids are grown up now but would have been raging if this happened) but keep communicating.

Your older son is right. Call the police now and do everything you can to stop your teenage son from interacting with a predator. You do realise he could even end up being trafficked and so on?

Absolutely the fuck NOT. I’d be reporting this man to the police for being a pedophile and grooming your 16yr old. My son would NOT be going and if he did I again would call the police and report it as an abduction of a minor. I’d make it extremely clear to my 16yr old that I’d be doing this and that he would no way in fuck be going to stay there with this old pervert.

Ask your son how many of his other friends have relationships with men in their 30s? Your son is actively being harmed even if he won’t realise it until later and you have got to make a stand!

good on your other son for actually stepping up here! Wake the fuck up! Young gay males are often preyed upon in the gay community by old pervert men and this is NOT ok. Nobody would think this was ok if a 16yr old girl.

PROTECT YOUR SON. Better he resents you now than realises when hes older you didn’t nothing to protect him, comprehends what has happened to him and cuts you off. Be a parent for fuck sake.

How to make sure you totally humiliate your poor fucking son. He might still be sensitive about his sexuality anyway.
Are you on crack?

Probably one of the most useful posts for the OP: someone who can talk about what it's like to be a gay teenager, and how to learn to be a gay man. More helpful than simply expressing horror (like suggesting calling the police on a gay boy, probably negotiating his first real-life experience: please don't alienate your children and drive them away!)

It’s exactly the same though

in fact even in cases where much worse happens to girls (prostitution etc) there just aren’t enough laws or too many people looking the wrong way.

the laws are currently being amended & things clarified thats its totally illegal to use AI to make images for example.

At the same time, the Op’s son is a young adult and if he is saying he is in a consensual relationship & there is no evidence otherwise its better for the OP to treat her son accordingly. All the treat him like a 5yr old, ground him, take his electronics etc will do the OP no favours at all.

it will also mean that the OP can stay close with her son & watch out for signs its anything but consensual.

Its worse than that as well. OPs son could well be at the address when these people (many of whom are sexually inappropriate themselves as people, its how they get their kicks, the subterfuge) turn up and they'll kick the shit out of OPs son as well.

Please contact the police and ask for advice on what to do. Have you watched the Huw Edwards scandal dramatised on channel 5 last week. It shows how grooming happens, there is a very high risk that this man is also a paedophile , why is he not dating men his own age ? Can you find this man’s name and contact his employer to alert them to safeguarding concerns.

There just seems some confusion on this thread about what Huw was convicted of.
Dirty, vile git!

I was thinking the same thing. Some advice on here is shocking.

This . It’s totally wrong for such an age gap because your son is a child

Tricky though isn't it, because he is over the age of consent. If he was being groomed at a younger age, or if this man was someone in authority, there would be leverage against his extremely dodgy behaviour. Hope DS comes through this OK.

OP, can you sneak his phone when he’s asleep and go through texts etc to try and find an address, full name etc of this man? A picture?

OP you might find this website helpful: if your child is over 16 - Ivison Trust https://share.google/rJOkq8DzSJolUIEDV. They say that the police WILL respond if there is a risk of child sexual exploitation because 16yr olds are still children according to the Children Act, even if they are legally able to consent to sex. Invision Trust also offer a telephone helpline with guidance for parents.

There is a lot of talk of grooming on this thread. Grooming is only an offence if the person being groomed is under 16. Don't trust AI on this, by the way. Some get this wrong and say it is an offence if the person being groomed is under 18, but the Sexual Offences Act 2003 is clear that it is only an offence if the victim is under 16.

The 30+ individual does not appear to be in a position of trust with respect to OP's son, so I don't see anything OP has said that suggests an offence is being committed. However much we may think it is wrong for a 16-year-old to be sexually involved with an individual aged over 30, it is not against the law. Once the young person reaches 16, they are free to have sex with any consenting adult of any age.

As has been pointed out, the law is odd in that a 30+ year old can have sex with a 16-year-old, but it is an offence if they take an indecent photo of them.

The police WILL respond to what exactly?

This must be your worst nightmare. I don’t have advice but when I was 16 there’s no way I would have been allowed to “go away for a few days” or even stay elsewhere overnight! I have no idea why a grown man would be interested in a 16 year old.

However, I realise this is controversial but I am a gay man and when I was 16-18 I used to meet older men who were in their 30s. I can’t say I was always completely honest about my age but sometimes I was. People in general always assumed I was older so that may have affected how these men perceived me. This was not in London and it was before smartphone apps etc so things were slightly different. Of course my parents had no idea.

In all honesty I felt I was the one instigating things and I don’t feel I was ever groomed. There was one guy I got on well with and it seems crazy but we would chat and he was quite supportive. Looking back I think he was someone to talk to without being judged. It’s difficult to reconcile because now I’m in my 30s it is unthinkable, but I everything was consensual and in truth I feel they were a good influence and they suited me better than anyone my age would. I was unharmed, but there were a couple of characters I met who gave me a bad feeling - and rightly so.

I do think things are different now, however, and for there to be an actual relationship between these two makes me uneasy, and I think your son behaving like this suggests he’s not particularly mature. I also think it’s a red flag this man hasn’t backed off ever since your other son messaged him. Are you sure he’s still speaking to your son and your son isn’t just lashing out with threats about going to London?

I think you need to parent as you would normally. So if he’s drinking he gets grounded, and certainly make sure he’s not doing drugs. If he gives you any lip you need to punish him as you usually would etc.

I also think you should be teaching him about safe sex and getting him to get tested and on PrEP.

I meant that it looks as if Police will not just brush this off as none of their business but look into concerns. Some PP up thread were suggesting that this would not be considered a police matter but the website states:

"The College of Policing Authorised Professional Practice Guidance on CSE is an important document for parents because it makes it clear that even if the child has reached the legal age of consent (16), the police have a duty to protect them from child sexual exploitation.
Your child’s needs should not be ignored or de-prioritised by services and agencies because your child is over the age of 16"

If it were me, I'd start by talking to an organization such as this or NSPCC.

Why do you think CEOP applies up to the age of 18 and not 16?

16- and 17-year-olds are still legally children under the Children Act 1989/2004. They can be victims of child sexual exploitation (CSE), which includes grooming-like behaviour involving manipulation, coercion or abuse of power. Police and social services have a duty to safeguard them from significant harm due to sexual exploitation, even if they can legally consent to sex.

This is literally the law.

Strict legal grooming offence (s15/s15A): Victim must be under 16 (unless the adult is in a position of trust like the child's teacher, coach or carer, or if there's any evidence that the older party is paying the child, then it's 18).

However, broader child sexual exploitation / safeguarding: Applies up to under 18.

Grooming can even apply to people over the age of 18 if consent is vitiated.

So many people on this thread think they're experts on this because they're aware that the legal age of consent is 16. A quick Google search or AI question will reveal to you that the law is more complicated than that and does have sexual protections for under 18s.

Let me rephrase as you dont appear to understand what Im asking or what the information on the website means

The information means, that if a young person of 16 or 17 makes an allegation of harm, coercion, CSE etc, the police should investigate that despite the young person being able to consent to sex with the person the are making the allegation about.

So in OPs case, let me ask again, in this case, what exactly will the police respond to?