To think that menopause talks at work might not be an entirely good thing?

[Wonderbug81]

We had a talk on menopause today at work. An outside speaker. About 10% of attendees were men (mainly younger) plus a mix of women of all ages.

The speaker went into a lot of detail about how debilitating perimenopause can be and the impact on work. She also talked through the support women can get both internally and through other orgs.

I know I should feel positive about all this but I couldn't help feeling that now people will just wonder whether any woman in their late 30s and above in our company (including me) is forgetting something or is 'off sick' because of their hormones.

I also feel a little uncomfortable that now, a lot more of my colleagues might now assume that if I am perimenopausal, I may have vaginal dryness and low libido among whatever else is wrong with me. Whether you have the symptoms or not it feels overly exposing and I have a couple of team members who would potentially exploit it as a vulnerability.

Please prove me wrong and tell me this is a positive move forward??

I get so frustrated with people dismissing women’s experiences. Just because you didn’t struggle, and actually don’t know anyone who did, it doesn’t mean it isn’t horrendous for others.

I’m AuDHD actually and employers do see people like me as a bit useless. I have missed out on jobs because, ironically, of ‘awareness’.

People see me as a total liability despite sailing through menopause and masking my AUDHD. They see ‘reasonable adjustments/brain fog’ and they don’t want to know.

People are far stupider than you may think and are largely incapable of understanding nuance.

Luckily my employer is better than most - I have a couple of adjustments (which inconveniences nobody).

They have paid for me to qualify in something at the age of 55, and offered me an amazing opportunity to do a new job role despite the fact that I dont have the experience but it is something I’m passionate about and I am good at.

But my employer is the exception.

No but it doesn’t mean it’s horrendous for everyone and that we are all struggling with brain fog etc.

and who has said that it does? you're completely missing the point- which is that advertising and highlighting it in the workplace might not be the best place to offer that support to women who need it.

I’m really sorry that has been your experience. The complete lack of support for people with disabilities in the workplace and wider society is shameful.

And you're dismissing my experience which is that menopause didnt affect me in any way which meant that I struggled to do my job and that I don't appreciate my age and reproductive stage being highlighted and commented on at work without my permission. It cuts both ways. So lets keep it out of the workplace and in doctors and charities and external support services where it belongs.

I didn’t. I actually acknowledged that you and other didn’t struggle. I myself haven’t either and so I fall into the same category as you. But I am willing to listen to the women who have.

Im pretty sure that nobody is commenting on your personal age and reproductive stage in your workplace

I've had over 20 symptoms over the oast 4 years including high anxiety and heart palpitations that led to seeing a cardioligist. I know exactly how debilitating it is.

My issue with highlighting it so overtly to people who aren't sympathetic is that it does more damage, leading to discrimination in hiring or symptoms being exploited by others.

No but they use it to judge in many places, I don’t want to be seen as useless just because I am over 40

Our policies and the support we provide have had very positive feedback and uptake.

We have more women in senior and mid-level leadership positions than men now, just.

Everyone that works for us knows that we put a huge amount of effort into wellbeing. It is natural that we would have a menopause policy. It isn’t an outlier in our organisation. We provide lots of different things for lots of different people. There isn’t scrutiny of women in their 50’s over and above any other sections of our workforce.

But like an awful lot of organisations, we have looked at why there has historically been fewer women in senior management than men. Middle management was becoming better through enhanced maternity, paternity and parental leave. But senior management was still suffering.

The result of all these policies is that we have extremely low staff turnover for our sector. We choose to plough all our efforts into retaining, developing and promoting staff rather than recruitment.

I totally agree with you - we had an online meeting about menopause awareness at work, and it made perimenopausal women sounds like a significant risk to the business, due to our potential to cry or scream at inopportune moments, we're fated to to forget everything they've ever known, and we're constantly fidgeting as so uncomfortable in their skins.

The leader wanted us to lobby for special paid leave for menopause symptoms.

It was all women at the session I was at, and a few of us challenged the leaders description of the inevitability of debilitating peri symptoms, and the damage that demanding special treatment would have to woman's careers.

We were more or less told that we weren't thinking about women with worse symptoms than ours, and that we needed to demand special accommodation, in the name of equality.

I think women are shooting ourselves in the foot if we demand special accommodation, it will be used against us by men in positions of authority to deny us career advancement, as it'll be just another thing which makes women unreliable.

I have kids and my career progress stalled when they were small, the price so many mothers pay. I don't want to be seen as a probably poor performer from 45-55 due to menopause - it's a reason for my employers not to trust me, not to promote me, and line me up for any potential redundancies.

That’s not what this thread’s about. No one doubts that some women struggle with menopause.

It’s whether or not a big deal should be made of it in the workplace that’s the issue. The constant “awareness” and calls for special measures to be put in place for middle aged women because they’re all doo-lally and incapable are really not in womens best interests.

Anyone, male or female with a health issue that affects their work should be given sympathetic consideration from their employers; menopause does not need to be a special case.

I think women are shooting ourselves in the foot if we demand special accommodation, it will be used against us by men in positions of authority to deny us career advancement, as it'll be just another thing which makes women unreliable.

This x 100000000 ^^

Im amazed some can’t see that they’re setting women back decades with this nonsense.

Exactly. I used to have to make a point in job interviews of saying I had no intention of having children, but apparently being past child bearing age isn’t a bar to discrimination

It only causes harm in workplaces where such difficulties are treated as a sign of inferiority. I can easily believe some women have experience this, because society has a habit of finding new ways to discriminate against women. But the answer isn’t to hide it or pretend it isn’t happening. The more openly we talk about it, the more understanding there is, and that benefits all women. Hiding it only reinforces the very negatives we’re trying to challenge.

Well thank goodness more people don’t think like you or we wouldn’t have the maternity legislation that we have today.

Everyone was saying the exact same thing when people were fighting for decent, paid maternity leave and legislation that protected pregnant women.

I want things to be much better for the next generation but I don't see why my experiences and career should suffer in order to make that happen.

Menopause isn't a protected characteristic so we're all at more risk of discrimination when the focus is on all the challenges/time off/support menopausal women need.

It needs to be balanced.
I also think a lot of these initiatives are lead by people who you really wouldn’t want knowing your personal business.

Absolutely. History shows us that many of our rights have been gained through making as much noise as possible

but many, many, many people currently still do, outside of your HR bubble, particularly male senior managers. Can't you understand that point?

So because men don’t get it we should hide the struggles that some woman face? Where has that ever advanced our rights.

And employers still discriminate (even subconsciously) against women of child bearing age as a result sadly

Yanbu i had to develop and deliver an awareness course and just wanted to die tbh

I dont hide anything. I simply discuss my medical issues with medical professionals, and discreetly with HR if needed, and get on with my work at work. That's not the same thing. I'm happy to lobby for better menopause awareness by GPs, and do.

I feel like there's enough awareness now in the media, online to not make a big deal of it at work and single women out. What about manopause? Men also suffer from lower hormones, ageing etc but we don't bang on about that in workplaces. I know it's not quite the same but still, it feels well intentioned but easily weaponised by sexist or ageist colleagues to keep women of a certain age in their place, just when they are finally ready to really step up with kids older and more headspace to commit to their careers. I am sure they mean well but it's not really the time or place - it's personal.