AIBU to think primary schools should not audition children for choirs?

[LovelyBranches]

Dd is 9 and loves singing. She goes to her school choir after school group and goes to signing lessons outside of school. She has competed (and won) at the Eisteddfod.

Yesterday she came home from school very upset, unbeknownst to us she had auditioned for a place in her choirs Christmas show which will be on tv. She didn’t get in. There were 3 children in her year that didn’t get in. DD was devastated and very upset about it.

Today she came home upset because the teachers had taken the new choir group to practice and DD had no one in her usual friendship group to eat with. She ended up eating with another girl in her class who hasn’t been very nice to her recently.

I feel really upset for DD, she sings all the time and will tell anyone who listens how she wants to work in the theatre when she is older. I am aware that the school probably had a limited number of places but I feel like they should have given places to all year 6 and year 5 pupils rather than what they did which was allow year 6 and pick selectively between year 5 and 4.

AIBU to think that schools shouldn’t have auditions for choirs at primary school level.

Exactly this

I do sympathise, but you’re over-reacting. Your daughter has not really been socially excluded. Her best friends possibly are not around, but that doesn’t mean that she’s excluded from anything. In my experience, the members of staff on duty would engage with any pupils seemingly on their own and help them to resolve any issues.

I would also like to provide some context and explain that pupils have to be a member of the Urdd in order to be able to compete in the local, county and then the National Eisteddfod, if they qualify. This means paying their membership via the Urdd portal. As teachers, we could only select the paid up members to compete. This was quite frustrating at times as some really talented pupils (or sometimes the parents) weren’t interested. So there would be a smaller pool of possible choir members in the first place.

The event in case here seems very different and it seems perfectly reasonable to me that Year 6 pupils have been selected first and then auditions for the remainder of the places. We have no idea of the numbers.

The National Eisteddfod is independent of the national Urdd eisteddfod.

You only need to be a member of Urdd to compete or partake in activities organised by/via the Urdd Gobaith Cymru.

The Eisteddfod Genedlaethol, Llangollen, YFC or the local chapel eisteddfod is not connected to Urdd.

Eiteddfodau are for choirs, smaller groups and soloists (vocal and instrumental) as well as dancers, poets, painters, photographers.

Of course it is, but in my sentence, the “National Eisteddfod” referred to the Urdd National Eisteddfod as it followed the local and county rounds and mentioned qualifying, which is not relevant to the actual National Eisteddfod held in August.

In Welsh, we say “y cylch, y sir a’r genedlaethol” (the local, county and national) in school. Pupils say “rydan ni wedi mynd trwodd i’r genedlaethol” when they win at county level.

But tell me... I am the parent of a child with a physical disability and other health needs... plus a child with a visible difference that isn't pleasant - the staring, the questions, etc ... What on earth am I supposed to do to help my child who has a physical disability / visible difference feels good about themselves? Of course I show them that everyone is unique, they are NOT defined by their disability... Yes, there are things they can't do and I gently have to tell them that it's because of their needs, but there are sometimes things life throws your way.

You asked - aibu to be annoyed that a school auditioned children for a singing competition. Yes, I think you are being unreasonable to be this annoyed about it. Maybe first come first serve would've been an option. Maybe randomised selection would have been an option. But it wasn't. They did an audition. DD is only year 4. She can accept that she didn't get to do it this time. She can audition again next time. It sucks. My DC loves sports. His physical disability means he can't do them. I don't blame the system. That's life.

What the school need to do now is help your daughter find some new friends, have support to cope with her emotions and thrive in the circumstances.

I don't understand why you posted in aibu if you don't want to genuinely know whether yabu!

My priority, despite all else, has been wanting my kids to have a healthy self esteem despite all their challenges, the operations... My daughter has had 8 operations related to her condition... EIGHT. Eight times of saying goodbye to your child while they are put to sleep in one of the most specialised children's hospitals in the world.

Don't talk to me about how my view is ableist. My viewpoint just wants your dd to have a healthy self esteem... For her to know that regardless of disability/ability etc, she is loved, secure, able to thrive in many other ways and that her disappointment and lack of making it this time doesn't define her.

Very wise pov. Read this and meditate @LovelyBranches .

Who says she's going into the theatre? No-one makes settled life decisions at the age of 9.

But she's on her own because all her friends are off at choir practice, and most of those in her year who aren't are boys who don't want to play with her. How is she not excluded?

They are absolute bloody idiots to audition and train the precise number of students needed for the TV event. They should be rehearsing the entire choir for this and picking the final set to go to the concert last minute.

I get it OP - it's far more distressing for a primary child to spend a term being left out of something their friends are all doing. That's not something that teaches resilience or fosters a love of singing. I completely feel for you and your DD.

I read this and have deeply reflected on it. Unfortunately I disagree with you entirely. I know exactly what it’s like to have children who have multiple operations, to have visible differences, to have people staring and asking questions.

You asked what you are supposed to do to help your child feel good about themselves and here’s where we differ-I believe in the social model of disability, you seem to have a very medical model of disability.

I believe (and the law supports this view largely) that access should be given to disabled people. So I fight for it. There have obviously been limitations (can’t go swimming when wearing plaster casts post op for example) but if my children wanted to climb pen y fan I’d try my best to find a way of getting them up there-I wouldn’t gently redirect. I don’t believe that their lives should be defined by their disability or made smaller.

It is my job to believe in my DC, to absorb the awfulness of putting them through operations (we’ve been through a similar number and due another soon) and allow them a life where what they want is possible. It’s also my job to educate anyone else in their life that believes otherwise.

I will not have my DD sitting alone at lunchtime and feeling left out. I can accept that she didn’t get into the choir but I don’t believe the process was fair and the consequences of that decision were not thought through.

There will always be Disabled people in the world, many of us will become Disabled in life. Access must be a shared problem that we all consider on a daily basis. So if your son likes sports find accessible groups-find a way of including him rather than telling him he can’t do something.

I agree with you OP. And it's not the 'not getting into the choir': if 80% of her gang hadnt, it wouldnt be the issue it is. It's being one of very few in her circle that didn't.

Teaching resilience has it's place but this isnt one that has value imo. I don't think this sort of harsh experience of isolation and exclusion teaches anything helpful at 9.

In smaller schools, pupils of all year groups interact so there is no social exclusion. Boys and girls will also play together. Many girls are super sporty and competitive and love to play ball games with the boys. Some boys hate ball games and prefer gentler games or chatting. That is the reality.

Realistically that is lovely but not my experience at all. My DD was definitely at the upper end of sporty and energy levels at school but she rarely, if ever, would have played ball games with the boys unless forced.

That’s not my DD’s reality. In her school the boys very much play football and the girls play netball. I have tried to encourage her to like football but she doesn’t. She fell asleep watching the Wales game last night (it was on quite late but she was bored

If you believe in the social model of disability then surely you believe that your child shouldn't be treated any differently to other kids because they have a disability. So if they aren't good enough for the choir it's because their voice isn't good enough and you need to accept this.

By all means if she is feeling lonely during break this needs to be addressed and perhaps the teacher can ensure that she is interacting with other kids.

I have a child with extra needs and she hasn't gotten picked for various things in her life. I would absolutely hate if she got chosen for things because she has extra needs. Its disingenuous. She has found an activity she absolutely shines in and we encourage this but even in that activity sometimes she doesn't get the role/part she wants because someone else is better.

I found the boys just don’t like doing sport with the girls. In PE it was fine when monitored by a teacher but in play time, they just wouldn’t pass to her so she didn’t bother. The boys absolutely would not have played netball. So much so the school didn’t play it at all and basketball hoops installed so it was ‘inclusive’ to all. I know people like to believe in this utopia where girls and boys play happily together and no one cares but it was absolutely not my experience when my children were at primary school. There was certainly some integration at play times for sure, but mostly the girls and the boys did their own things.

can accept that she didn’t get into the choir but I don’t believe the process was fair and the consequences of that decision were not thought through.
if your daughter had got in and others hadn’t would you have same belief? Would you have held a stand of her not being in the choir to be with her friend who didn’t ?
do you believe the process of the completion she won was fair?

The clarification was for the benefit of other MNers, @FunkyFringe . To me, and probably many others, the “National Eisteddfod” is the Eisteddfod Genedlaethol. The Urdd national eisteddfod is usually referred to as "Eisteddfod yr Urdd".

As you say In Welsh, we say “y cylch, y sir a’r genedlaethol” (the local, county and national) in school. Pupils say “rydan ni wedi mynd trwodd i’r genedlaethol” when they win at county level.. They don't say 'Rydan ni'n mynd i'r Eisteddfod Genedlaethol.'

That’s not what the social model of disability is at all.

The social model sees Disability as a community problem caused by societal barriers. The goal is to remove those barriers.

It does not mean treat everyone in exactly the same way.

The argument about someone getting access based on their needs vs merit is a false one. Many disabled people are denied access to things because of their disability stops others from seeing their merits. By removing the barriers it allows disabled people a level playing field to demonstrate their merits, not to get an undeserved space.

I believe I would have. I have past history of fighting for access for others to things that don’t include me

Cytuno

I don’t believe the process was fair and the consequences of that decision were not thought through.

What part of the process are you not happy with?

Quite frankly teachers are too flipping busy to consider the lunch time consequences of a choir. It's one hell of a reach that teachers should think about every possible consequence ever.

I think you need to play this down and encourage new friendships for your DD.