AIBU to think primary schools should not audition children for choirs?

[LovelyBranches]

Dd is 9 and loves singing. She goes to her school choir after school group and goes to signing lessons outside of school. She has competed (and won) at the Eisteddfod.

Yesterday she came home from school very upset, unbeknownst to us she had auditioned for a place in her choirs Christmas show which will be on tv. She didn’t get in. There were 3 children in her year that didn’t get in. DD was devastated and very upset about it.

Today she came home upset because the teachers had taken the new choir group to practice and DD had no one in her usual friendship group to eat with. She ended up eating with another girl in her class who hasn’t been very nice to her recently.

I feel really upset for DD, she sings all the time and will tell anyone who listens how she wants to work in the theatre when she is older. I am aware that the school probably had a limited number of places but I feel like they should have given places to all year 6 and year 5 pupils rather than what they did which was allow year 6 and pick selectively between year 5 and 4.

AIBU to think that schools shouldn’t have auditions for choirs at primary school level.

Also I bet if their child was chosen, they probably wouldn't be so vocal about it "not being fair" for everyone else and would be more a case of "oh well"

Well exactly, and if this was the true belief “all or none” would they be supporting competitive events like the one the dd won?

If your child was one of the chosen ones I suspect auditioning children wouldn’t be the issue it is now.

My DD9 is a performer. She dances, sings in a choir, performs in musical theatre and plays an instrument. Some of the things she does are inclusive and some she has to audition for. Is quite possible she will pursue a career in performance and I do see the auditions etc as part of her learning. Not just in terms of rejection, but also preparing for audition, managing the stress and being happy for her friends.

she is doing a big MT production in the summer, second year she’s done it. They make them all audition even though pretty much everyone gets into the show. Every one of her best friends got a callback for a solo, she didn’t. I was gutted. She was pleased for her friends. I was so proud of her. She is an amazing singer and performer, and had a small solo last year. But she understood that they go with who does best on the day, and who fits the part best. She has also auditioned for a dance solo and lost out to a dancer who scores much lower in exams. Again she understands that the other dancer had what was looked for on the day. Another day it will be her if she keeps working hard.

i think it’s absolutely fine for primary schools to audition kids for things. As long as they do a wide range of activities so that all kids get a chance to shine. I do agree the inclusion of all yr six was a bit weird, I would’ve thought all audition or none. I would also be a bit annoyed if the commitment is having a big social impact and might asking the school what they are going to do to mitigate the social exclusion.

But as gutting as it has been for your daughter, this is sadly part of performance, it’s hugely competitive and they need to learn from each disappointment (there will be many) and move on.

Oh good grief! I’m starting to think your daughter’s biggest problem is you, because you think she should just get whatever she wants! That’s not how life works, and nine is not too young to learn this. What are you going to do when she gets to working age, turn up and complain she didn’t get the job she wanted and it’s all so unfair how dare they?!

I didn’t get into my primary school choir. My two closest friends did. C’est la vie.

Where are you seeing ableism?

OP so what do you think happened here? Why was your daughter not chosen?

And what are you going to do about it now? Lots of differing advice here. What action will you take?

I don't know that I am, but I didn't have much of a choice! My daughter discovered that theatre was a thing when she was about 5 years old and has spent the past 20 years pursuing it. She is very sensitive and hates the feeling of rejection that comes with not getting a part, but she is even more determined than that and keeps trying. I greatly admire her! I could have discouraged her from pursuing it I suppose, but I don't agree with that parenting philosophy. I think it's our job as parents to expose our children to a wide range of interests and pursuits, and encourage and support them on the path they choose.

Are you talking about an external show because if you are that’s very different.

My DD cannot escape this. it’s at school - she has already spent one lunch break sitting on her own in the yard as a direct consequence of this. Who knows how many more times she’ll have to do that?

If this was an external show then I’d understand but this decision by teachers had directly resulted in my dd being socially excluded and being in tears 3 times in 2 days.

This is the same DD who couldn’t wait to back to school after having major surgery.

@LovelyBranches , talk to the school. Find out what's really going on and deal with it then.

I thought you said earlier that she’d moved tables so she wasn’t on her own?

It’s sad for you both that she’s upset but that doesn’t mean she deserves a place in an auditioned choir. You need to focus on helping her get over it and your focus with the school needs to be on how they can support her at lunchtimes, not criticising their selection process for the choir.

How? School being forced to put the dd in the event? Well all the dc who didn’t get in would have to join the event too wouldn’t they?
the dds friends to be pulled from performing to spend playtime with her?

Yes in your OP you said she had lunch with a girl she didn’t like much - so which was it, she’s on her own, or just not with her best friends?

DS has had occasions in school for one reason or another his friends haven't been in due to illness or taking part in events.

This has meant he has been alone. Or they have been alone. On occasion this has been for consecutive weeks. They've all just got on with it.

Tbh, its not healthy to have that level of co-dependence on other children at age 9. She should be able to deal with it occasionally for whatever reason.

Its not ALL the time, even if its a regular thing.

How does she cope if shes at an external group and there's no one she knows? Does she get much time alone?

Is she likely to go to the same school as all her peers or might they end up going to a number of different schools? High School isn't that far off. Its only going to be 18months before you will get High School allocations though. How would she cope if she found she was given different options? Given her disability there is an increased risk here in terms of whether the schools nearby are all accessible which might influence decision making and allocation of schools...

My personal feeling is by Spring of Yr4 you really should be firmly focussed on preparation for High School in emotional terms, because blink and you will be making those decisions - they really are not long off and its much easier to take a longer term approach to this rather than having a bit of a panic in yr6 about it (theres a number of kids in DSs class who really are in this situation because parents have mollycoddled for far too long and then are coming up to the cliff edge of reality).

Honestly, I do think you are making a situation which isn't ideal far worse and adding to the upset by fuelling it with your outrage rather than fostering an idea that this just wasn't her turn, there will be other opportunities and it sucks being on your own occassionally but its not that much of a big deal. By dialing up the drama you create the drama rather than reassuring her.

If shes not coping with this situation thats a whole different line of approach rather than insisting she be allowed to force her way onto the choir. Its a 'would it be possible for her to read in the library instead?' type third scenario solution rather than being pushy and difficult.

You need to teach that life isn't fair. Sometimes unfair decisions are just unfair, sometimes they are done for reasons you don't know but are perfectly reasonable under the circumstances. Sometimes its to give others an opportunity. Sometimes these decision making processes actually work in your favour. Thats it. And you deal with it. And yes she probably will have to deal with it more than most but its not always just about her either.

But yr4 kids should know how to accept losing or not having everything their way. Its something DSs school made a big point at during Yr3 because otherwise it caused all manner of issues - not just with the kids but also the parents.

With kindness OP, as I'm not without empathy for your poor DD feeling upset at not being selected and missing her friends during lunch, I think perhaps an AIBU thread isn't going to be helpful to you if you don't actually want a variety of perspectives and you just want agreement and validation.

If you are convinced you are right and the school is wrong, why ask for opinions at all? AIBU will always give a wide range of opinions, some will agree, some won't, some will be kind, even in disagreement, and some can be brutal.

I suspect you won't get the school to change the situation retrospectively. The reality is that there are likely limited places and including your DD will mean excluding another child. But if you do feel strongly, then discuss the situation with them calmly, outline your DD's experience and the impact on her, be prepared to listen to their perspective as well and enter into a dialogue rather than going in guns blazing. Perhaps if you have that reasoned discussion they'll look at how they handle future, similar events, not just for her sake but for other pupils as well.

So are you going to talk to the school? This seems your only remedy here!

"Given how parents go nuts when their child hasn't been included in a special event, we no longer want to do such activities in future as its too stressful for the staff. So this event will be the last of its kind".

Yeah you’re That Parent.

So, I have been in touch with the school. I emailed to ask if DD could just practice with the choir. They haven’t replied.

DD has just got home and said the the choir practiced 4 times today-during both breaks, lunch and then taken out of afternoon lessons.

@PoppinjayPolly , No. Ask the school how the choir singers were chosen and why her DD wasn't. Asking the people involved, in a pleasant manner, might get a good result.

There might be factors the children weren't aware of.
It might be that OP's DD implied there was an audition when it wasn't really the case. There might have been a mix-up.

If only one or two missed out on a place, maybe they could be found a place.

It might be that OP's DD is very talented but as a soloist not a choir member. Maybe she, like I was at that age, could sing very well sometimes but not keep a tune on other days.

Maybe the school thought that the well-behaved DD was not going to be comfortable performing. Who knows.

It's worrying that OP's DD was devastated but it might be that she is just too good to blend in.

Maybe some of the choir would prefer play to choir practice and would gladly swap.

Maybe they know,( shes told them )she sings elsewhere and they thought it would be decent to give another child a chance. YABU

So all pupils who want to get to take part in practice, or just your dd?

then it’s the “ah but she’s done all the rehearsals.. surely you’re not stopping her from joining the performance!!!”

You obviously don’t understand the fact that she possibly was not good enough and need to accept that. You seem more bothered about the fact she has no one to eat or play with. It’s time for her to make new friends which you should be encouraging.

Your daughter won at the Eisteddfod! That's brilliant! She must be pretty talented.

You'll already know how serious and competitive singing and choirs are from a really young age if your daughter has competed before. Arglwydd! I can barely watch eisteddfod yr urdd as it can get so tense!

There will be more opportunities for your daughter. Perhaps she can stick it to them by winning more solo competitions in the meantime?

What is Eisteddford - is it for choirs or soloists? I have to admit I've never heard of it?