AIBU to think primary schools should not audition children for choirs?

[LovelyBranches]

Dd is 9 and loves singing. She goes to her school choir after school group and goes to signing lessons outside of school. She has competed (and won) at the Eisteddfod.

Yesterday she came home from school very upset, unbeknownst to us she had auditioned for a place in her choirs Christmas show which will be on tv. She didn’t get in. There were 3 children in her year that didn’t get in. DD was devastated and very upset about it.

Today she came home upset because the teachers had taken the new choir group to practice and DD had no one in her usual friendship group to eat with. She ended up eating with another girl in her class who hasn’t been very nice to her recently.

I feel really upset for DD, she sings all the time and will tell anyone who listens how she wants to work in the theatre when she is older. I am aware that the school probably had a limited number of places but I feel like they should have given places to all year 6 and year 5 pupils rather than what they did which was allow year 6 and pick selectively between year 5 and 4.

AIBU to think that schools shouldn’t have auditions for choirs at primary school level.

I haven’t asked for career advice and you clearly don’t understand how emotionally strong you have to be to be a disabled child. My dd has learned lessons that non disabled people will never learn in their life.

It doesn't make much difference - it's about how her daughter feels and that all her friends are away. I would definitely speak to the school if this happened to my child - not in a he must get chosen for everything way- but he's really upset and feels excluded because of this - can you please help him with this.

It sounds like all of year 6 got to go, and then about half of the year 4 and 5 kids, which doesn’t sound unreasonable for an opportunity with limited numbers - ie take all the older kids plus the best of the rest if they can fit a few more in.

It is what it is. Agree with others that OP should focus on how her DD will be supported at lunch rather than complaining about the process. If DDs friend(s) also hadn’t been chosen then this wouldn’t be an issue.

Your daughter is struggling without her friend group, and you should absolutely talk to the school about that. YANBU to be concerned.

YABU to think the solution is to give her someone else's place in the choir, and assume they didn't earn it. It sounds like DD has a tough time of it with her disability, and I understand singing is something she loves. But the school don't owe it to her to put her in the choir because of those two things. The bitter way you're talking about them - all this "they think they're Simon Cowell" stuff - isn't fair. They'll have had their reasons for the choices they made, and those reasons won't be "Let's be cruel to a nine year old in a wheelchair, for no reason!"

She's just too young, and on this occasion she missed out. The posters who say this is an opportunity to teach her resilience are right. I'm sure DD is a tough kid, and she's overcome a lot. But her health struggles aren't the same thing. Accepting you can't do something because you have physical limitations is a different type of hurt, compared to knowing you could do it, but you didn't get picked. Both are crushing to a nine year old, but in different ways.

I know it's tough. You've probably been in fight mode most of her life, because her health situation is unfair, and "never give up, never let it win" has been what you needed to do to give her the best life possible. But sometimes she's going to face regular kid problems too, and those need a different approach. She needs to learn the same lessons as every other kid. Here, it sounds like she needs support in finding new friends for her lunch break. She needs help accepting that just because she loves something and she's good at it doesn't mean she'll get a place - but there's always next year.

Who knows? This might even be an opportunity for DD to pick up a new hobby. Singing can be the thing she loves most, but it doesn't have to be her only thing. Can you try to get her excited about something else? Learning a language? Art? Fair enough if the boys have their football, but she can't be the only girl left with a lot of time to fill as she didn't make the choir. I'd talk to the school about putting something else on for this group. They might be open to the idea, if you approach them the right way. I'm sure they want DD to be happy too.

With respect, it feels like you're confusing suffering with resilience here. OP's daughter's disability isn't an opportunity for building resilience, it's something she was born with and hasn't chosen and has no doubt made her life more difficult than other children's lives around her. She hasn't had a choice in it.

Auditioning for choirs, singing competitions etc by choice is in no way analogous to having a disability. If the OP's DD wants to sing competitively, she will require resilience to bounce back from failures at auditions, to keep going with what she loves despite not always getting through audition processes, getting parts or winning competitions. All children (and parents) who want to enter this world, whether or not they have disabilities, will need that, because it's about their talent, not their disability, as long as they are not excluded from processes for accessibility reasons (no indication that's the case here despite a lot of conjecture on the thread!).

Conpetitive choirs and the like aren't going to go "poor Sarah, she's already had to be so resilient in her life, we can't let her fail at audition and not get in". That just isn't how the world works. And nobody wants to be Sarah who gets picked because mum is a nightmare.

OP's DD is entitled to equality of opportunity, but not equality of outcome.

OP's best approach here would be a sensible conversation with the school to seek honest feedback about why her DD wasn't chosen this time, with the aim of helping her understand and supporting her through it. And to see what the school can do to help with the lunchtime situation.

Couldn't agree more. Children should beable to sing for the joy of it in the school choir, whatever their perceived ability, not pandering to media needs.

Yes, so in year four, 15 children wanted to join and out of that 15, 3 children were excluded. Doesn't matter about year 5 and 6. If 3 out of 15 children were excluded in year four, that's not good.

I'm sorry I didn't mean to cause offence. X

Trying and failing, followed by picking yourself up and starting again is a really important lesson. No one gets through life without failure and disappointments, it’s how you react that’s important. Do not express dissatisfaction with the process to your daughter. Of course they audition, that’s fair.

Your reaction is vital. You say
“That’s a shame, you can try again next year.” End of. No drama, or “that’s really unfair”.

20 in the year, 15 auditioned and 3 interested auditionees were excluded. It wouldn't have made any difference to the disinterested 5 who didn't audition in the first place.

Like another poster mentioned above, I suspect that it has something to do with the wheelchair - possibly access arrangements, not having enough teachers to look after op's child or worst-case scenario, having a wheelchair on TV would spoil the 'look' of the choir. If the first two reasons then it should at least be explained to Op's daughter. The third reason shouldn't even be entertained.

Stop wrapping your child in cotton wool. the whole world can't revolve around your child. If she really wants to go into theatre she is going to face rejection on a weekly basis. You are not doing her any favours here OP.

The worst part is they will take this attitude into High School, eg how dare they not put me in Set 1 for Maths, Mum'll be there to whine for me and when I don't pass my driving test, get a First Class Honours degree etc etc. she'll be there. I used to have a few pupils on the junior books of a very high profile Premier League football team but I only recall one of them eventually playing for the first team, the others were taken on by lesser teams and have gradually disappeared into obscurity. That's life.

This thread is frustrating. It's obvious so many posters are just commenting without having read Op's posts properly. So many just giving their opinions without even realising the Op's daughter is disabled.
And not a drip feed either. She mentions this right at the start of the thread and it's mentioned throughout.

If she wants to work in the arts and entertainment she’ll be dealing with many, many rejections through her life.

At 9 years old it’s not an unreasonable age to understand not everyone gets picked. Would you feel the same if this was a painting competition etc?

The fact that you thought this was acceptable to write down says a lot about you!

A wheelchair ruining the ‘look’ of a choir!

Wow.

I know I’m down with the flu and all but I re-read the post and I still don’t see where disability is mentioned?

But if that was the case they should explain that to her.

This has actually brought back a memory - my children play competitive sport. My daughter is one of the best in the year in her sport and in year 10 she didn’t get picked for this big tournament. SHe was devastated. Teacher was away and she couldn’t ask why she wasn’t picked. I didn’t want to be that parent as everyone is suggesting and complaining. She had to stay in school where everyone drove off without her.

eventually she was so down about it I wrote in to the head of sport and said, look can you explain to her why didn’t get picked. The head of sport was baffled and was like, ‘she was supposed to be there’ - let me investigate.

turns out she has been left off the list accidentally.

gutted honestly. She would have loved to have gone and I’ve kicked myself ever since for not entrusting my instinct and asking.

I agree and 3 out of a group of 15 members of a choir is in my view, a singling out - for exclusion.

Actually I hate to say it but do you think the wheelchair was a factor? Dreadful but people can still be awkward about wheelchairs. I think it’s worth an email to the sch Saying what could she practice. Meanwhile tell her you know she is good. Does she know what the other two are like at singing.

Oh dear, you sound like the first mother to complain if the choir was crap. People need to realise no matter how much your child likes something doesn’t mean they are going to be good at it. My oldest loved singing at the top of his voice it was awful so we just joked for him not to give up his day job. Children need to know their limits or is it the parents need to know.

I agree OP. I know there is an argument to say that kids need to learn that they won’t get everything in life. But all that they are learning is disappointment and exclusion. If they had auditions then she’s been rejected, there’s no other way for her to feel. Kids don’t really have the capacity to process that like adults can.

I can remember a lot of disappointments when I was at school, either mine or my peers. I was chosen for some stuff and it was incredible, but I don’t think it was very fair.

If the school is generally accommodating with her wheelchair then I wouldn't personally jump to the conclusion that either they are suddenly happy to not accommodate her or to go along with a TV show who suggest to leave a child out because of her wheelchair. Especially without saying something to OP.

I suspect it is purely down to numbers and the TV show wanting majority older children which is why Year 6 didn't have to audition.

I think you are misinterpreting what I'm saying completely. My opinion is the complete opposite! You have latched onto that phrase without understanding what I was trying to get across.

Of course I'm not saying a wheelchair would ruin the 'look' of a choir! I'm saying that by excluding your daughter, this is what the school's view possibly could be. Hence their reason for not selecting her. It's discriminatory.
If you read my posts, I am completely on your side Op.