Mumsnet race to the bottom

[limeandwater]

I have noticed on MN there has been a real race to the bottom mentality. To be clear I am not talking about budget advice threads that can be incredibly helpful.

I am talking about the posters that think working people should be so accepting of a miserable life.

Again I am not talking about 5 star holidays in The Maldives, 26 plate Range Rovers, or shopping at Harrods Food Hall.

Somebody posts about the price of coffee then the response is to make your own and bring it with you. Somebody posts about the price of a cafe lunch on a family day out and the response is bring your own sandwiches. Somebody posted about the cost of running a car and the answer is cycle. Like that's realistic in a rainy December.

When did people get so accepting that life had to be miserable?

How are disabled people meant to cycle then? We need a car to get about.

For some, it's not worth coming together to acknowledge problems and campaign for change - it's more rewarding to stick the boot in and imply that you are superior, even if it means you are both worse off.

How do you know that "too many low income or those on benefits waste money on takeouts and coffees"?

Completely agree with this.

It's not remotely "Four Yorkshiremen" to point out that takeaway coffees and bought lunches every day is not a basic human right. They are absolutely fine and dandy occasionally as a treat or if there is no other viable alternative. But if you are relying on these on a daily basis and then wondering where all the money is going then there is a very easy solution.

In yesterday's Times there was a column by a young woman, didn't read it in detail, but the gist was that she had always got a take away coffee on her way to work. However it had recently dawned on her that this no longer cost the £2.70 it had when she started but had crept up to nearly £5. She has started taking a flask and is now saving nearly £25 a week. I didn't get the impression she was miserable about it.

I grew up in poverty. I mean dirty clothes, no heating and no food in the fridge style poverty.

Gransnet is worse for the race to the bottom drinking attitude though. "I grew up without heating or a toilet. We only ate lard. I wore my school uniform to bed to keep warm but we were happy and today's generation are just spoilt" - I would never want others to live how I lived. I want better for everyone. If you can eat dinner at Pizza Express then that's great! Go and enjoy it!

who cares if your DH cycles 2000 nautical miles to work in a tsunami? Do you really begrudge someone who wants to stay warm
and dry on their commute? What a weird attitude!

If you like Costa coffee go and get 10.

The "race to the bottom" is a British cultural
attitude problem and it's shit.

Enjoy your lives people 💐

But doesn't that neatly illustrate the problem? If everyone who previously could afford said daily coffee now makes their own, then the cafe will close, so jobs are lost. The rights and wrongs of people buying a daily coffee is neither here nor there if the point is that some things are now unaffordable which directly affects employment.

Witnessed it. Granted it is only my and my friends observations bu5bare you disputing it happens?

shadenfreude?

Absolutely, with a special interest in having houses as freezing cold as possible - being warm and cosy is considered a moral failing.

I still take sandwiches and a flask 90% but I don't see it as a miserable experience. It's all about perception.

I go out for coffee in a cafe with a friend once a month and I don't really enjoy it. If she said lets pack a flask and a a slice of cake and drive to blah and look at the view, I would jump at the chance but she would see that as 'lesser' when seeing lapwings and flowers and clouds is far nicer than seeing other peoples arses on seats and having to shout at each other.

It is possible to sometimes like a free walk in the park and a picnic and also like having a cake and coffee in a cafe. These are two different pleasures. Neither is more morally superior to the other. I couldn’t go through life looking down my nose at people because they make different choices to me, what a waste of time and energy, even if it is free 😁

Why is it necessary to police what people choose to have to eat in a restaurant? I think you've proved my point.

So are you saying that people should spend money they can't afford on coffee they don't need, to ensure that all of the zillion cafes on a street stay open and employ people, who can in turn spend money on coffees elsewhere that they can't afford and don't need?!

🤣 agreed

It’s always given by people who would never endure it themselves both online and in real life
I’ve had to listen to a lifetime of my dad chatting shit about how people will have to go and work in McDonald’s
A job that he himself was fired from
But apparently that’s what his children ought to be doing and his grandchildren whenever faced with any sort of career issue or stalling whatsoever
Thank fuck most people can look beyond it and see through it otherwise we would all be living a life of misery, what’s it called the crabs in a bucket? It’s everywhere.

Oh I 100% agree with you and I also do the same. I was just noticing the difference in when a lower-income person complains about not being able to afford a luxury they once used to be able to frequently vs a higher-income person complaining about not being able to afford a luxury they once used to (e.g. private schools, large mortgage). The latter seem more aghast at suggestions that downsizing houses or changing schools should be an option to save money.

You wear all weather gear so you don't get wet and keep a change of clothes in the office just in case 😂

My very first thought too. There's a fine (bread)line between well-meaning helpful advice and privileged 'let them eat cake' on here at times.

My kids are older now but even now I still think hard about a lunch out rather than taking own food.

we did make some bonkers decisions though - once when ski-ing in order to save money we took sarnies and carrots out onto the mountain. They froze solid and after one attempt at eating them we decided that although plates of chips at the restaurant was more expensive at least it was warm.

four people for lunch can get expensive really fast and if it’s not particularly good value for money (eg theme park cafes etc) then I still prefer to take sarnies and a flask of tea.

I don’t know, I’m often surprised at how much some poster’s happiness is tied to buying stuff. The older I get the less things like that matter.
Eg I don’t buy coffee in cafes, not because I can’t afford it but because I find it is generally too strong and bitter tasting.
I would rather have a weak, milky instant coffee at home whilst watching the birds in my garden.

People are people. Of course some people who can't afford it spend money (in your view) unwisely. But stating that "too many" of those on benefits or with low incomes do it is judgemental. Are we really going to back to the 'undeserving poor' days?

No, I am saying that a certain economic model has been in place due to spending patterns based on affordability, and once that affordability factor goes, it has a direct effect on people employed to service that economic model. It's a consequence which has an effect on people's livelihoods.

How can you tell from looking at someone that they are poor or on benefits at say Costa?
I don’t find richer middle class people more frugal, they just spend their money on different stuff. But it’s fun being frugal when you can spend, not when you’re poor!

It's a race to the bottom for sure

The UK is in a poor state? Get down on your two knees and be grateful you're not in Afghanistan etc etc mentality

It's like they don't want to improve their own situation

I believe there are studies showing people on low income spend more on small things because they live day to day, compared to higher incomes.
Quite interesting psychology