Mumsnet race to the bottom

[limeandwater]

I have noticed on MN there has been a real race to the bottom mentality. To be clear I am not talking about budget advice threads that can be incredibly helpful.

I am talking about the posters that think working people should be so accepting of a miserable life.

Again I am not talking about 5 star holidays in The Maldives, 26 plate Range Rovers, or shopping at Harrods Food Hall.

Somebody posts about the price of coffee then the response is to make your own and bring it with you. Somebody posts about the price of a cafe lunch on a family day out and the response is bring your own sandwiches. Somebody posted about the cost of running a car and the answer is cycle. Like that's realistic in a rainy December.

When did people get so accepting that life had to be miserable?

DH does this. 20km commute. At least 3 times a week. The train takes longer and. It’s a lot more!

A key part of the enshittification on MN is the use of AI to write OPs.

Key tells -
I am talking about.........
I am not talking about...........
Again I am not talking...
I fully agree that .... but surely.........

OP will either pour out a tin of word soup or disappear forever.

Has all the charm of talking to the pop up paperclip.

I hate it when you get a poor woman posting about how upset she is that her DH/DCs haven’t recognised her birthday/Mother’s Day/etc. As mothers, we spend our whole lives giving. We take care of the needs of everyone around us and often get little or nothing in return. It’s awful to feel unappreciated and upset that they can’t make the same effort for you one day a year, that you make for them 365 days. It’s valid and understandable.

But you get these martyrs saying “I’ve never been bothered about Mother’s Day and I’ve never even got a card on my birthday and it doesn’t bother me. I gave my adults DCs both my kidneys and now I live in a shed so I could give them the money to buy a house and never have to work, because that’s what good mothers do”.

Surely these are the things written when people are financially struggling and want tips on saving money so yes things like taking a packed lunch will save money.

I agree with the replies to the examples you've given. I find whingeing about luxuries really grating. Complaining about the cost of coffee can be easily avoided by bringing your own coffee. Many people seem to think living without takeaway coffees or meals or not driving absolutely everywhere is hardship. It shows how entitled people have become.

Performative thrift. Absolutely love this expression! And had never heard it before. It sums up exactly some of the attitudes on here - to heating your house, gifts, birthdays, etc., etc.

I would much rather have sandwiches and cycle - it's not a race to the bottom! Driving somewhere to sit in a Costa eating disgusting overpriced sandwiches is not my idea of fun. Cycling somewhere or walking somewhere and having delicious homemade cheese and pickle sandwiches with a flask of home made tea (always 1000% better than any you can find in a cafe) is my idea of a lovely day out.

The odd coffee when times are hard is a nice and reasonably cheap way of bringing a little bit of joy in your life if you like coffee and don’t have money for the bigger things. I do this once in a while as a treat and I probably can’t really afford it, but it’s social and we don’t have holidays, we cut our own hair, I don’t get beauty treatments, we have very few clothes live in a small house and don’t buy a lot or go on expensive day trips. If sombody implied that coffee was the root cause of all my problems, I would be an annoyed. That being said if I was really trying to save and having a coffee everyday on my commute that would be a bit silly and could be something to reasonably cut back on. There is a lot of nuance in people’s finances. And you can’t really comment without knowing the full picture. Lumping the occasional coffee into spending habits like Botox and expensive hen does is trying to feed a particular stereotype that isn’t particularly true or helpful.

But you don’t know what makes other people happy.

If you’re happier taking a Thermos flask of coffee out with you and drinking it on a park bench or a picnic table or having your insulated mug on your desk, that’s great - enjoy! For you that’s a greater pleasure than nipping into a cafe. Totally understandable.

But some people just much prefer going into a cafe for a coffee that someone else has made and not having to carry a flask around or stand there filling it in the morning and washing it up at the end of the day. For some people, part of the pleasure of going into a cafe is having something they can’t/wouldn’t make at home. For some people, that’s just a small joy which cheers them up. Also totally understandable.

Similarly, I could save a lot of money by getting all my fiction from the library instead of buying them - but buying books is a pleasure for me. I like owning them, I like having a TBR stack without the admin of renewing and returning etc. If I couldn’t afford books I would still be able to read from the library so my life wouldn’t be miserable, but the small pleasure of book-buying would have been removed from me and that would feel a little bit miserable.

We’re all different. What’s ’better’ or ‘nicer’ is subjective and differs from person to person, and that’s fine. Everyone’s small pleasures are different.

The thing is, if you’re used to being able to do something (whether that be coffee, holidays, drive a nice car) and you can no longer afford to do something, it’s going to feel a bit miserable. Yes people live without these things but seeing your lifestyle change is hard. A bit of empathy goes a long way.

i sometimes think some people won’t be happy until everyone is living in hair shirts, eating grass and drinking from a stream.

In a way I agree with you, but I also think that societal expectations have changed a lot in recent years, so that some people are now a bit unrealistic.

I was born in the 60s, and eating out just wasn't a thing when I was growing up. I would never in a million years have bought, for example, a coffee on a train. It was a luxury that I wouldn't even contemplate, even when I started working as a junior doctor.

As a student the only eating out we did was an occasional kebab after a night out, or possible a cheap dodgy curry. DS is a student now, and they regularly go out to restaurants, and have takeaways often.

By the time I was taking my own kids out for day-trips, I was a GP, earning decent money. But when we went out, I'd still take sandwiches and snacks, and then supplement that with an ice cream from a cafe. I wouldn't never expect to pay restaurant prices for all the food that day.

My cars have always been mid range Ford Focus type things, usually 5-10 years old.

It seems these days a lot of people think it's a basic human right to drive a brand new 4x4, eat in a restaurant once a week, and spend £10/day on posh coffee.

It's not a race to the bottom. It's just an awareness that a lot of things that are considered fundamental needs these days, are actually pretty luxurious really.

So, someone complains about the price of coffee, and some folk say take your own and that's not an acceptable response? So unless the poster only wants to complain about the price and doesn't want any answers they don't want to hear, then that is now somehow a race to the bottom?

I do hear you OP, but I think it's a bit extreme and I don't think everyone means anything unkindly. Maybe some people are more realistic than others and accepting that not being able to afford something right now is life.

The UK is shit right now with little end in sight, vast majority are feeling it. It's not our fault we've been governed by awful inept people for the last 30+ years who seem to get things wrong so often. Just trying to get through it and if taking own sarnies or coffee is the solution to still go out as a family and have some fun, then so be it. We all make decisions about where to spend our money and we've had ups and downs like this for years, going through recessions, wars, brexit, banking crisis, unemployment, no growth etc. It's not a race to the bottom, it's finding solutions to still enjoy life when times are tough.

Completely agree OP. So many well-off posters telling lower-income posters to cut back, economise and make-do with dregs but the moment they complain in threads about being stretched to afford the new VAT for private-schools and get told by posters to save money by using perfectly fine state schools, they are ABSOLUTELY AGHAST.

"There is always someone worse off," Your point is Madge ? That may be so but I'm more concerned about my paying my bills, getting food on the table and having a life outside work. Other peoples problems don't really ping on my radar unless it's affecting my kids.

100% spot on

I mean if you have an office job is cycling to work and turning up soaking wet for 3 months of the year sensible?
A good waterproof coat and you'll be fine.

I also 100% agree with this too. Societal expectations have changed so drastically and everyone is more susceptible to lifestyle creep. Going out for a meal was a really rare treat 15-20 years ago reserved for really special occasions only. Same with take-aways, but now people do both multiple times a week

That's very much it.
No one is unreasonable to moan their quality of life and things they could afford has gone down when they actually haven't even overdone it in a first place (like living above means).
Sometimes it feels some people will not be happy until living standard is shite for everyone. You are right

Haven’t RTFT but the worst is “Cost of food too high? Why don’t you simply use your garden to grow vegetables as I do?” because of course everyone has sunny, fertile land to spare, and the free time to ensure an abundant year-round supply of produce. And naturally, organic.

🙄

My favourite part of the dissection of the Panorama on the family who ate at Pizza Express etc was the volume of replies focusing on the amount of food ordered/ general gluttony shown. It was a hilarious example of competitive undereating (Mumsnet chicken etc).

I grew my own and it actually can cost more 😂😂😂
Especially when setting up

If you purchase a coffee on your journey to and from work it seems wasteful. If you meet a friend to go shopping it seems reasonable to sit down and catch up over coffee (as long as you can afford it).

Too many low income or those on benefits waste money on takeouts and coffees. Ironically it is the more comfortable who are the most frugal and do without. Thus cannot understand the entitlement and unrealistic expectations of some.

The one about café lunches on days out did get me thinking though. When I was little in the 80s/90s, any days out would always entail taking our own picnic lunch, and this was exactly the same for days out I went on with family and friends. I'd say we were average families (based on we all went to state schools, all tended to live in very similar unremarkable 3 bed semis etc). The consensus was cafés, theme park food were not in the budget for the day out for a "normal" family.

As I got older, eating out during these sorts of days, and on the go, definitely became more normalised for me, and now I rarely think to take sandwiches anywhere (or only if I really need to penny pinch). I don't know if this is reflected in society as a whole, or if it's just my experience. I hadn't really thought about it before.

Oh come on, they had dough balls followed by pizza polenta chips and salad then a pudding. It wouldn't be undereating to lose the dough balls and chips would it? Having just a pizza also isn't undereating. Most of the pizzas are over 1000 calories on their own.

There's nothing wrong with living within your means.

When I was child-free in my early 30s, working full time and living with my partner, we could pretty much afford anything we wanted.

When I became a single parent working part time, I had to change my life a bit.

But I really don't feel that I'm having to "make-do with dregs" when I take a bottle of water or flask of coffee with me when I go out, or drive my 13 year old car, or save restaurant meals for special occasions. I'm just living within my means, as I was always taught to.