Mumsnet race to the bottom

[limeandwater]

I have noticed on MN there has been a real race to the bottom mentality. To be clear I am not talking about budget advice threads that can be incredibly helpful.

I am talking about the posters that think working people should be so accepting of a miserable life.

Again I am not talking about 5 star holidays in The Maldives, 26 plate Range Rovers, or shopping at Harrods Food Hall.

Somebody posts about the price of coffee then the response is to make your own and bring it with you. Somebody posts about the price of a cafe lunch on a family day out and the response is bring your own sandwiches. Somebody posted about the cost of running a car and the answer is cycle. Like that's realistic in a rainy December.

When did people get so accepting that life had to be miserable?

That’s so interesting.
I definitely suffer with it and it was the way I was raised. With hindsight, it was always for another selfish cause.

Because the problem is life getting "better" in your sense means more consumption, more wealth, more spending, more buying.

That cannot continue ad infinitum. It simply can't. It can't be sustained by any system known to man.

Life simply can't get more and more luxurious for everyone without a major bubble burst at some point. It's just not sustainable - and I don't mean sustainable in an environmental sense. Without some paradigm shifting technological advancement (like Star Trek) it is physically impossible.

Plenty of people have no choice in the matter and are forced to use their feet or a bike or even a moped / motorbike. Many more will choose these options whether for cost, their health, getting through traffic or convenience.

You buy waterproof clothing, or a waterproof rucksack and change into your office clothing on arrival. That's not complicated or difficult.

It’s not always miserable, I usually take coffee with me because as much as I like the idea of buying a whatever latte, I don’t actually enjoy it when I have it. I think it is miserable if you have no option but to take coffee with you and can never buy one. It’s much easier to make the cost effective choice when you know you could buy an occasional coffee if you wanted one, otherwise you do start to feel deprived, because it’s not actually a choice.

I live in Scotland so it's more like 12 months a year lol. But my husband and I both commute to work without a car. We just wear proper clothes and it's fine.

I grew up without any of the extras - my parents would no sooner think about buying a coffee out than they'd think about going on a cruise. Just not options in our household. We had flasks and picnics and went to any free events and went to the beach a lot. We'd have a road trip to visit my cousins every couple of years but never went on holiday otherwise. So I still think of a lot of this as a treat and I'm glad I can afford it for myself and my kids. I don't think anyone would suffer hugely if we had a change in circumstance and had to be more creative though.

My workplace is going through a restructuring so we were working out what would happen if I was without a job for a little while. There's a lot of stuff to cut out before it's getting to 'the bottom' - things that make our life nicer of course, but it wouldn't be 'the bottom' to live how I grew up either.

And if you don’t have the money for a waterproof rucksack, jacket or trousers!

I wonder how much if this change in expectations is fuelled by celebrities, and social media? When David Beckham married in an extravaganza of, I think, pink with thrones etc that became an aim for many couples. Hello magazine and the like feature celebrities homes and so on 'Mrs Rooney's decorates her home fabulously for Christmas/Halloween/Easter', er No she doesn't, she probably never climbed one ladder, companies are paid thousands for such jobs, no offence to Mrs Rooney, there are loads of others.

You don't turn up wet and soaking for 3 months of the year though.

I used to cycle in every day and there would be 3 or 4 days a year at most when I got properly soaked. And when it's that wet you'd get soaked waking from the station as well.

Easily dealt with with a quick change of clothes, which I would do anyway.

You budget the essentials first - rent/mortgage, utilities, food - then you see what is left

Some are not willing to forgo the takeouts or car ownership and are then unable to pay their rent. Not acceptable to be greedy and make their cash mismanagement someone elses problem.

Take a change of clothes?

Life has been getting better for most people - everyone is saying how when they were a lad and it were all fields round here they didn’t have any money and it were grand which heavily implies now is different. Who decides when life has reached its peak? I don’t think now is the pinnacle of human achievement, but I can see many have given up and are just trying to deal with the scraps they’ve been left. Imagine if your ancestors had done that - we’d all still be in the workhouse!

Was on a two day training course once. A woman also on the course who I barely knew turned round and stuck her nose up when I returned with my second cup of Costa during a break, and goes “we have got coffee in the staff room you know, that’s such a waste”.
Yes. Nescafé instant.
Also, my money, my drink of choice, and I had even offered to buy her one before I went.
Still, I’m glad she felt superior drinking her brown piss water.

I do think a lot of the people giving this sort of advice do actually do it.

my local chippy has fucking massive portions and yes me and my dd can split a portion and still not finish it. I’m aware not all chippies a like that though (Norfolk if anyone wants to know).

I did cycle to work regularly and had waterproofs and got changed at work. I know it is doable for some people because I have done it. I’m also aware that not all suggestions on Mumsnet will work for everyone but honestly when I’ve had issues/problems having a load of ideas is really helpful even if some of them inevitably don’t work for my situation.

I wonder how many of the Frugalatti are employed in hospitality. My guess is when all of the higher earners start taking flasks of coffee and packed lunches, and a certain section of the hospitality industry collapses and they lose their jobs they will start accusing higher earners of being selfish by making their own coffee!

I don’t think I’ve known anyone to not pay the rent because they’re paying for a car. Plenty not paying the rent because they’ve paid their utility bill, or had to cover costs of an unexpected hospital stay, or the kids shoes. Is it so hard to believe some people just don’t have enough money to make ends meet, you can’t budget your way out of insufficient money.

It's good to be able to adapt to difficult circumstances but it's also ok to feel frustrated and angry and want to talk about.

Seriously, please share the statistics that actually reflect this.

I’m in two minds about this. I agree sanctimonious posts and the ‘tone deaf’ brigade are annoying, however I don’t think cutting back automatically means a miserable life.

I have a coffee machine now and make coffee at home instead of buying a takeaway coffee every day. I tend to only buy one at the weekend. I am saving around $150 a month and no joy has been lost, as far as I can tell (especially as I get to experiment with different coffee beans and flavours). So if I gave that advice to someone, it would be genuine and based on my own experience.

Suggesting a practical solution isn't necessarily racing to the bottom or sigbing us all up for a miserable life. Taking a flask of coffee is sensible if you can't afford cafes. A bike may be a useful alternative to the train on dry days. Fact is that the cost of living is going up and it's important to be able to compromise without it feeling like a tragedy.

The weird thing is that we know from history that living standards don't just improve in a linear pattern. There have always been periods of stagnation and decline peppered throughout history and these usually relate to times of famine, pandemics and war. We have experienced two out of three of these things very recently. The idea that you should be able to carry on completely unaffected is bizarre!

Personally I think a lot of the problems we have as a society is that most people assume that the past 80ish years are 'normal' when in fact they are actually the exception. There should never be an assumption that life will get better or that you will be more fortunate than your parents. The vast majority of human existence has been focussed on survival and the idea that we are somehow automatically entitled to takeaway coffees and nice things is a recent idea. I even see on threads about benefits that holidays are now considered an 'essential' and valid use of taxpayer money. Any pushback to this crazy entitlement is considered racing to the bottom. Things that are actually a privilege now considered a basic right.

Seems to be a combination of well off people telling others how to live without actually doing much parsimony themselves on things they enjoy or virtue signalling greens ( and believe me I’m not right wing) thinking we all have a duty to cycle, not fly, go on holiday only in UK and carry round flasks of tap water and Tupperware boxes , up cycle everything and it’s mother and don’t buy into beauty /hair/fashion at any cost .

I agree. I think it's about what the "treats" are worth. A coffee van parks outside my office on a Tuesday so I spend £3.40 on an oat milk latte and have a chat with the owner. It's worth the money to me as a part time worker.
If this latte ended up at Starbucks prices (absolute minimum £5.50) due to fuel rises making importing beans more expensive, then I could no longer afford or justify it which is a shame for me and the owner.

I still can’t get over the thread a few years ago where a poster had received an inheritance and wanted to buy a lovely
bag. From what I remember she was told to donate a park bench or something instead and to stop being profligate.

But you need to be able to afford the machine in the first place, and if I’m struggling to pay £5 for a takeaway coffee I won’t have the money to buy a machine that makes good coffee, or the different coffee beans that bring you pleasure. I could maybe find £5 every so often for a single coffee but not have £100 to buy a coffee maker, so I persist with the occasional bought coffee.

Similarly cycling to work. I might have £10 for bus fares, at a push. I’m not going to have the money to buy a bike, or refurbish one from freecycle, or a waterproof coat to keep dry on my cycle to work. When money is tight you don’t have spare cash to facilitate saving money down the line.

For me it all comes down to a shocking lack of emotional intelligence. But also some inbuilt thing where we don’t like to see people have it “easier” than we had it, childbirth is a big one, it being a badge of honour to suffer in pain and be a martyr and if a time ruse says fuck no I had all the drugs then they get negative comments.