Mumsnet race to the bottom

[limeandwater]

I have noticed on MN there has been a real race to the bottom mentality. To be clear I am not talking about budget advice threads that can be incredibly helpful.

I am talking about the posters that think working people should be so accepting of a miserable life.

Again I am not talking about 5 star holidays in The Maldives, 26 plate Range Rovers, or shopping at Harrods Food Hall.

Somebody posts about the price of coffee then the response is to make your own and bring it with you. Somebody posts about the price of a cafe lunch on a family day out and the response is bring your own sandwiches. Somebody posted about the cost of running a car and the answer is cycle. Like that's realistic in a rainy December.

When did people get so accepting that life had to be miserable?

To be honest a lot of these questionable degrees are actually very relevant for many businesses in the world as it is today - maybe not so much 15 years ago but in this current world having a strong understanding of social communication, media bias , political nous and buying psychology/marketing etc are a damn site more useful in commerce than something like classics etc - I must admit I had an English lit grad from a decent university in my business and was suprised at their complete lack of general knowledge , personally I would make a well rounded general studies long module a part of any degree or even A levels

i do agree, it’s a big difference when it’s choice , to a month on month lived experience - I found this out when I split with my ex husband in my late 20s - we had always got by ok, 2 incomes etc, actually had our own house aged 20! ( this is early 80s) - suddenly being on a very fixed budget with little room for fun wasn’t nearly as pleasant as a ‘let’s see how little I can spend month’ - especially with debt and rent due on the day and a landlord that would hassle if a day late , rather than a mortgage I could pay 4 days late with no consequences.

An intelligent poor student would qualify for university and used to work a side job whilst there. Yes they lived on canned food in digs but that was the same for the majority. Now they expect an ensuite and a full social life. Unrealistic expectations.

Of course not every day - don't think that's ever been considered reasonable. Once in a while - half term treat, catch up with friends - hell yes!!

Just looked up my old University accommodation. £232 a week for shared facilities £252 ensuite. Not a huge difference. Plus they've knocked down most of the older shared facilities blocks. I paid (well my parents did), around £30 in mid 90s and there plenty on full grants that managed OK.

Again, nonsense
They get accommodation with en suite because that’s all that’s available due to thank goodness fire regulations and standard standards of safety increasing
When I was at Birmingham University, three students died due to carbon dioxide poisoning
They were good old days eh ?

We didn’t manage okay though at all I was actually hungry for three years.
I can remember not having enough money to be able to socialise and eat and dress even in seasonally adjusted clothing
We look back on the photographs and we actually look like we’re struggling in the pictures. Rose tinted glasses help nobody.

Sorry to hear that but my experience was different in university accommodation.
I do agree rose tinted glasses help no one and I didn't see the many able students that didn't get to go for myriad of socio economic reasons.

I got a full grant in the mid 80s, didn’t work in term time or eat canned food and survived just fine.

It’s almost as if during the 80s the grant stretched further isn’t it?
My father was on the dole for nearly a year in the 80’s and ran a car, bought musical instruments, given a three bedroomed house for when his children visited at weekends only they didn’t, furnished the house, decorated/carpeted it. Oh no wait sorry that was more grants.
We are living in very different times

Handy table showing the decrease in value of maintenance grant from the 80s in real terms and as a percentage of average income.
https://hansard.parliament.uk/Commons/1994-10-25/debates/c94fdb71-c244-4646-b4ab-6a99dde6d1f2/StudentGrants

You’ll not be wanting teachers, social workers, occupational therapists, nurses then.

Those jobs didn't use to require a university education.

The person I was quoting mentioned they were a student and had full advantage of free education. Not once did I say that it is compulsory.

But in the field I was interested in, even minimum wage jobs required a degree. People forget that the government at the time had a huge push on going to university and degrees were required for jobs that absolutely didn’t need them.

But now they do and they have done for a long time so your point is completely useless.

Nursing has been a degree profession for 25 years. How far back in the dark ages do you want to go?

Well, if PPs want to compare today's cost of living / housing / university access to the 80s and 90s (gen X) or the 60s and 70s (boomers) to make their case, then yes, what needed a degree or not at that time is relevent.

I see no one has mentioned yet that students back in the 70s and 80s could claim dole in the holidays because the expectation was that they would have summer jobs, so if they didn't they were unemployed.

The reason New Labour wanted to expand uni education wasn't access or social mobility, it was to remove a huge swathe of young people from the jobless/jobhunting stats. Basically conned into borrowing money to pay for their own 3 years' of unemployment rather than being on the unemployment stats.

I was on the dole for a period in the early 1980s. It was around £20 a week

As a single person it didn’t go that far.

They didn’t but they have done for decades now, as each profession become reserved and regulated.

It appears it was 1990 when students were finally stopped from claiming unemployment benefit. Not really a labour policy.
"From November 1986 to September 1990, students could claim unemployment-related benefits during their summer holidays (prior to that, they could claim during any holiday, given they were actively seeking work), but they were not included in the unemployment count. That meant that they were recognised as unemployed, since they were eligible for unemployment benefits, but only unofficially. To resolve this contradiction, since 1990, students have not been allowed to claim unemployment benefits at all."
https://www.radstats.org.uk/no072/article4.htm

Back to the 70s and 80s when debt was stigmatised and you lived within your means. If you were poor you worked hard to improve your life and saved up. Certainly didn't claim benefits as it was viewed as shameful unless an extreme case.

Didn't say stopping dole for students was a Labour policy. I know it was before New Labour, because unlike many PP I was in fact alive and conscious at the time.

I said that the expansion of uni access and the switch to it being paid for mainly through self funding via loans rather than the state was under New Labour.

This sort of view is shared by various politicians as well, who think we can all live on 30p a day (Lee Anderson Reform MP). Life is supposed to bring us some joy or else what is the point of living it. It doesn’t have to be extravagant either.

Yes life should bring you joy, you just have to live within your means. Increase hours,change jobs, move house. Whatever it takes.

Gosh, I wonder if he had some other source of income 😕
Again, another thing you wouldn’t get away with now
You can’t even withdraw cash without universal credits wanting your accounted for, never mind you receive it