Mumsnet race to the bottom

[limeandwater]

I have noticed on MN there has been a real race to the bottom mentality. To be clear I am not talking about budget advice threads that can be incredibly helpful.

I am talking about the posters that think working people should be so accepting of a miserable life.

Again I am not talking about 5 star holidays in The Maldives, 26 plate Range Rovers, or shopping at Harrods Food Hall.

Somebody posts about the price of coffee then the response is to make your own and bring it with you. Somebody posts about the price of a cafe lunch on a family day out and the response is bring your own sandwiches. Somebody posted about the cost of running a car and the answer is cycle. Like that's realistic in a rainy December.

When did people get so accepting that life had to be miserable?

i know people who in my opinion waste shitloads of cash on what to me is absolute rubbish: nails, “beauty”, fancy dining, new cars, home revamps, coffees, clothes. The lot, really. We are all exposed to what feels a relentless big brother messaging that consumerism is good, that buying x y or z will make your house a home/partner happy/you content/your kids perfect. It’s all a massive con and I have no sympathy for those who fall for it. and I have contempt for those who fall for it and then complain about how expensive life is. Bah.

Yes! Feed your family beans and lentils for the next 10 years. Have fun family days out in your local park, take some bean & lentil wraps and a flask of coffee. Children don't need Disney films, must-have clothing or this year's toy. Teach them some proper values by playing family board games and quizzes. The resultant ostracisation or bullying will build their resilience. You own three pairs of shoes? I don't how you dare complain, nobody looks at your feet when you're at a wedding/interview. It's nearly summer, turn off the heating and limit hot water to two hours a day.

Meanwhile ... get some fruit into the kids by sending them out in the fresh air to harvest your orchard. Get a capsule wardrobe together, beige silk and cashmere, and you'll never have to worry about what to wear. Is this £5,346 dress too showy for a society wedding in Washington DC?

I'm sure somebody's already mentioned the Mumsnet chicken and the massive salad 😏 Gotta love this place!

There's a lot of unnecessary derision for people living within their means on this thread as though that is something to be derided and mocked. Bit of a sad indictment of today's society.

Have the overspenders thought what happens if they face redundancy? No back-up funds mean they will lose their house, credit card companies will stop lending.

If they are the benefit class I wouldn't get too comfy either. The magic money tree will end when the IMF are called in. The next government will slash benefiits and remove others. Then what?

Act at your petil. Reap what you sow.

That would be true if, unlike in the 60s, people could get free university education or a house 3-4x their annual income, or survive on one salary.

But they can’t so sometimes a coffee on a train cheers them up.

Beans and lentils? Expensive and unnecessary. What's wrong with a small plastic container of plain boiled rice? If you insist on sandwiches, cold porridge makes a good cheap filling.

And to drink, always remember there's loads of water in the tap. But try to use the taps at work, so as not to waste your own.

I agree that dining out can be a worthy treat, but that's what soup kitchens are for, and there are hundreds of them in London alone. They won't turn you away if you talk posh.

Indeed they're always looking for volunteers, so you could help out for half an hour and get a free feed each day, with plenty of tea and coffee as well.

Not so funny if that becomes the future reality of many.

Since when has a university education been compulsory? It is only financially prudent if you have an extremely high paid job at the end. If not it is a waste of money and time when a person could be out earning.

Don't worry as soon as the benefits class can't afford their daily posh coffee out the government will step in and increase the dole outs. We can't have Chardonnay not having her cholomachalatte every day it might hurt her feelings.

Only if the only measure you use is money.

I can well believe that. I did say the NEXT government. Assume that means there will be a massive coffee takeout run until then.

Omg is Points of View still on!? I haven’t heard of that since the 90s!

From this thread seems like the cavern between the small treats make the week bearable camp and any unnecessary spending is frivolous, will never be bridged.
It has taken many years for me to view money as a means to an end. Parents were a mix of extremely tight in some areas (stuff! Who needs stuff!) but didn't stint on eating out the the 1980s which apparently no else was doing.
I have had times when income was tight but always a "call your dad and he could stop it all situation". Still managed a Saturday paper or packet of Jaffa cakes at the end of the week. Sometimes it is the little things that spark joy not looking at numbers on a spreadsheet. However I appreciate that others prefer the spreadsheet.

An educated population benefits everybody university should never be about an outcome. It’s a journey and it was only available to the rich previously.
It would be tragic if we lost that

If it isn't for money why not study in your own time. Evening classes. Loans need to be repaid no matter what. Even from benefits. This will ensure people think very carefully whether it is the right choice for them. Or fees could be paid up front meaning people take a gap year working to fund their university course.

It was never for the rich it was for whoever achieved the highest grades. It was for the intelligent , top 10% highest grades. Now it is a free for all with those with a low IQ going.

Thanks to Tony Blair degrees are required for jobs when previously they weren't. Also entry level jobs with just GCSEs don't exist anymore. No local banks, no secretaries and admin assistants.

Actually, it wasn’t for the most intelligent, it was for whose parents could afford to financially Bank roll you for three years because even the grants weren’t livable on.
Nobody with a low IQ passes a university course you’re talking nonsense.

But the huge variety of questionable courses means a Uni education has effectively been dumbed down

Nobody is interviewing a PPE Oxford student for the same role as a social media graduate from Lincoln
Both have their places in the world and are rewarded accordingly
I dated an Oxford professor and in terms of tenacity and real life work readiness you would take the social media graduate all day long that person has worked three times hard harder for their degree. If you wanted to give less than a 2.1 to anybody from Oxford or Cambridge you were holding in front of your boss to explain you’re thinking at which point the students Personal tutor would then handhold them through fixing the assignment to bring it up to a 2.1 I can tell you when categorically that does not happen unless the less prestigious universities.

No it hasn’t. A degree from a Russell group university will always be of greater value. As will a degree from a university which is recognised as gold standard in the subject. All degrees aren’t equal and never have been.

@labamba18 I think this is the truth - and particularly prevalent in certain parts of the country - if I went back to my home town( not a particularly nice place admittedly) a young couple even on modest minimum wage jobs , if both earning, could still save enough for a 2 bed house deposit in a couple of years -which does give focus, where I live now? No chance, unless on very high earnings indeed or inherit or parents gift you the odd £40k AND you are high earnings indeed. When it gets like this then you will look at that coffee out, a couple of cheapish holidays a year , the odd nights out etc because the big things are fairly unattainable , it’s not as if you can just stay in to save money, many are in shared houses still in parental home which isn’t great when it comes to nurturing relationships . When we lived in Copenhagen by the age of 26 or 27 most young people were allocated a 1 bed social housing flat ( many were modern and very nice too) you kept that flat regardless, if you moved in with a partner, so long as rent was still paid, you could rent it out etc but always had it to go back to if things went pear shaped - I think it was one reason a lot of young women didn’t put up with shitty treatment and many also used it initially if they split with a child etc - before seeking a 2 bed version. A lot were the equivalent of the big shared ownership flat developments you see in London - except didn’t require 2,incomes to be able to afford it .

A lot of economic behaviouralists think that this is exactly what people think. Ever being financially in a position to buy a house is a laughable concept so I’ll have an overly expensive advocating toast because fuck it, I’ll live for today.

Makes perfect sense in a way.

@Snowwhitesnow But it’s fun being frugal when you can spend, not when you’re poor!

Neat way of describing an important concept which can often be missed by those with more of a cushion

To be honest a lot of these questionable degrees are actually very relevant for many businesses in the world as it is today - maybe not so much 15 years ago but in this current world having a strong understanding of social communication, media bias , political nous and buying psychology/marketing etc are a damn site more useful in commerce than something like classics etc - I must admit I had an English lit grad from a decent university in my business and was suprised at their complete lack of general knowledge , personally I would make a well rounded general studies long module a part of any degree or even A levels