Mumsnet race to the bottom

[limeandwater]

I have noticed on MN there has been a real race to the bottom mentality. To be clear I am not talking about budget advice threads that can be incredibly helpful.

I am talking about the posters that think working people should be so accepting of a miserable life.

Again I am not talking about 5 star holidays in The Maldives, 26 plate Range Rovers, or shopping at Harrods Food Hall.

Somebody posts about the price of coffee then the response is to make your own and bring it with you. Somebody posts about the price of a cafe lunch on a family day out and the response is bring your own sandwiches. Somebody posted about the cost of running a car and the answer is cycle. Like that's realistic in a rainy December.

When did people get so accepting that life had to be miserable?

Maybe some people are just moany people. But I don't think it is unreasonable if you come back after lunch and complain how much coffee costs for other members of the team to suggest using the little coffee machine we have in the office. Apparently she can't do that because of whatever syrup they add at the shop. Its very much a "my diamond shoes are too tight" scenario.

@itsthetea

But I know the younger generation also finds it hard to accept that older people who now have homes of their own were at one time surviving in a bed sit in the cheapest part of town ( it’s red light district) and counting the pennies for a potato for their tea. Whilst working full time in a decent job.

When was this the norm for older people?

Coffee culture has largely replaced pub culture. A lot of younger people don’t drink at all.

I love the story about the Red Cross sending lipstick when the concentration camps were liberated in 1945. Apparently it saved some women’s lives.

https://fransorin.com/one-small-act-kindness-saved-lives-impact-giving-lipsticks-women-brink-death/

If you have the heating on full blast or only buy at Waitrose with no attempt to cut your costs, then yes you can't complain.

'Fripperies' (seriously, are you posting from the 1850s? Christ) are not the problem though.

Even if people spent less money on 'fripperies' they would STILL have way less disposable income than the baby boomer generation because the cost of the most basic essentials like housing now swallow up a far greater proportion of a salary than they once did. My niece and her boyfriend are both in their early 20s and both have a full-time jobs and a part-time job each, and they can't afford to buy a flat together. And here's the thing: if they saved every penny they spend on coffees or avocados or whatever it is people hate young people for buying these days, they would still not be able to afford to buy a flat. The 'fripperies' are not the problem. That's a bullshit message propagated by right-wing governments to justify doing fuck-all to help them.

Maybe some people are just moany people

Well would MNs exist without them?

I did it for 20 years plus. 10 miles each way. Often the ride in/out was the best part of the day.

And if you don’t? I complained about my Lidl shop yesterday.

You seem absolutely determined to misrepresent what I’m saying, so let me be clear.

I don’t think everyone needs to view any particular thing as universally good or bad. I think passing judgement on other people’s choice of food or activity is counter productive, as is insisting that people can make the same choices as me and those choices would objectively be much better.

Perspective is subjective, we all have our own view informed by our unique life experiences. Sharing perspective can be really helpful, sharing that with a tablespoon of judgement is not. Assuming the worst of people is a judgement whether that be the places they eat, the way they travel to work or the car they drive. Insisting everyone can easily do what I do isn’t perspective.

Of course people can complain. Your personal approval isn’t required.

If you don’t like it, or cannot relate to someone on a higher income commenting on increased living costs, then you don’t actually have to engage on someone else’s thread about it.

Thanks for this (I couldn’t @ you for some reason.)

If you don’t like it, or cannot relate to someone on a higher income commenting on increased living costs, then you don’t actually have to engage on someone else’s thread about it.

But where would we be without people moaning about others moaning 😆

Exactly. Billionaire Sunak told us to “hang in there” during his cost of living crisis (which is still going on)

Yes you can complain (as long as you were sensible), the same as the person who has one coffee out in six months can complain. It is the expectation and entitlement that angers people.

What I'm trying to get you to understand is that if you throw away good information because the way it's framed offends your ego, you only hurt yourself.

Though got to say, I'm loving the irony of you holding yourself in judgement over "judgey" posters 😂

Just to agree with @Jellycatspyjamas challenging of how expensive being poor is

Its often something I see on here about second hand furniture. I live in a town that is deprived while my parents live in a "nicer" town. I often use Facebook marketplace in there area because the quality is far superior, prices lower and more things given away for free. Eg i got a solid oak bed for about 50, In my area you are more likely to get people clinging on to whatever they can get for something and for it to be a battered argos cheapy quality for the same price.

Equally when I was struggling with money, I didn't have a way of transporting stuff like that and was reliant on things like credit. Often paying way over the odds for something that broke 6 months later placing me back at square one, while others that had the money immediately would still have a functioning item and be starting to save again

Poverty is a massive trap and cycle that's hard to escape. I now manage my money much better, and money goes much further simply because i had more choices so it's easier to judge people for "silly" poor budgeting when often you don't have good choices

I almost changed job to a less well paid one because of the price of transport. I had a cheap run around car, that was constantly breaking and because I had limited money for repair I was doing the minimum and frequently having issues. I spent lots of money on busses and taxis because I needed to get to work and my car wouldn't start. Even stuff like my insurance was higher for a bad car, in a bad area without a garage

I now have an alright car which costs me far less per month (and allows me to have a better paid job) than that cheap run around did. I wouldnt have had space to store a bike, and would have lost wages in childcare/ commute time

This is true for a thousand things for me at that time from much worse interest rates than i get now, unable to bulk buy stuff because of terrible fridge/ freezer, cupboard space, cheap furniture I was forever replacing, clothes that didn't last, crap appliances, higher rent for those that would rent on benefits. I remember i once had an oven break, and I couldn't afford a new one, shit credit so went to an appliance shop where I paid an extortionate amount monthly for an oven that died in a few years, combined with even things like laundrette costs.

Now things are looking up for me, my home is much cheaper to run. I'm happy to spend more time in it, I can do things like play in the garden with the kids (saving on day out costs), I could even do things like the mumsnet back garden party now! I batch cook, buy things on offer etc I couldn't when I was living in that flat

Being genuinely poor is so incredibly expensive that it's hard to thrift your way out of it.

To quote a film, I wasn't making poor choices, I had poor choices available to me

I've had to give up the Lidl dark chocolate rice cakes that have been one of my life's little luxuries for years because they are now £2 a pack (I remember when they were under a quid) and I just cannot justify spending best part of a fiver on them. I'm disproportionately gutted as I haven't yet found anything else that comes close.

Yes you can complain (as long as you were sensible),

What does this mean? Is there a guide that gives examples of legitimate complaints?

the same as the person who has one coffee out in six months can complain

I don’t drink coffee so never buy it but I do buy lipstick and lots of other beauty products. Does that invalidate my complaints?

My relative is wealthy, she can still have a moan that she relies on oil heating because the cost has gone through the roof!

A poster who gets it. Unless totally flushed, people are cutting back. Very strange that the takeout, coffee and credit brigade things it doesn't apply to them.

Don't forget that the meal would also be gobbled up/inhaled/snarfed/chowed down on too. Never just eaten.

lol, this is so true

But there is a some profiteering going on because often the differential becomes less with more premium brands. The same is happening with eating out. So I just don’t bother with a company that is ripping me off and hoping I don’t notice.

Lip stick depends. Are you moaning about a £150 dior lipstick being expensive but think that a £6 superdrug jobbie is below you? That to me is the same as complaining your gingerbreadchocolotomacolatte drink is expensive but a coffee from the office machine is benefith you.

Have you got a spreadsheet you can share, Dragonflytamer? I need to know what it's acceptable to moan about

Are you moaning about a £150 dior lipstick being expensive but think that a £6 superdrug jobbie is below you? That to me is the same as complaining your gingerbreadchocolotomacolatte drink is expensive but a coffee from the office machine is benefith you.

Well a Dior lipstick is £40 but surely the point is the increased cost. Whether I buy lipstick from Superdrug or Dior or shop in Lidl or Waitrose if my shop is getting more expensive every week I can have a moan? I have a decent household income but have definitely noticed price increases.