Ambulances Set on Fire in Suspected Anti Jewish Attack

[StartingStar]

Horrible news that ambulances run by a Jewish charity have been set on fire in Golders Green today.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyj1p49gdpo

AIBU to feel it's got to to with the rise in anti Jewish hate since the allowance of horrible slogans on the weekly marches and in everyday society? What on earth makes people commit such a horrible attack.

I'm 100% with the Jewish community and pray for peace.

I’m not saying some groups are inherently better at integration, I’d say it’s more about choice.
It’s hard for everyone, but some people definitely make more effort than others.
Not because they’re somehow superior, but because that’s what they choose to do.

What are you trying to say here. Jewish people assimilate (but some don’t)
I'll try and explain better even though I am a non practising Jew. I'm sure other religious Jews will correct where necessary. It is a FACT that Hassidic (Ultra Orthodox) Jews do not assimilate fully in the UK or elsewhere in the Jewish diaspora. Their sons study the Torah throughout childhood and into adulthood. Their daughters are in the main are brought up to be submissive to their husbands, do not work outside of the home except at the synagogue and charities. There are similarities to very strict Muslim families. They are a minority amongst the Jewish population.

What has it got to do with anything we are discussing?
This thread is about Jewish charity ambulances being destroyed as an antisemitic attack. This is an open forum and I am allowed to post as long as I am not offensive, which I endeavour not to be.

There were Jewish terrorist attacks against British people also in Europe.
I am not aware of any but please point me in that direction.
As I have already stated: There have been NO attacks on Brits here in the UK by Jewish people.

You sound like you are trying to make the argument that some people are superior and have more of a right to be here than others.
I have no idea how you came to this erroneous conclusion from my post.

Everyone has a right to safety because of who they are or what they believe , including Jewish people.
On this final point we can agree. Thank you.

.

I couldn't even face tackling the desire of that poster to use a laughing emoji. To just ignore the utter brutality of the Japanese army to the countries controlled and want to use a laughing emoji says a lot about that poster, none of it good.

No history of terrorism neither Christianity (Forgot the Crusades in the Holy Land during the Middle Ages?) Judaism (Terrorism did take place locally during the British Mandate period) Islam (1972 Munich Olympics, The Twin Towers etc).

Nobody has stated that 'Jewish people were somewhat superior to others named in their post' AFAIK. If somebody has done so it is actually an anti semitic trope.

He doesn’t have to now as he’s already destroyed it.

I think this is my first post on here for many years, but l cannot keep quiet. It seems to have become nearly impossible to have any point of view here that is in any way critical of the behaviour of the State of Israel. Or that tries, even in moderate language, to suggest possible reasons - not excuses - why certain anti-semitic events take place. I read today in The Guardian that civilian deaths in Gaza now stand at 650. Many health workers and health facilities have been killed, injured or destroyed both in Gaza and Lebanon. So, to some people, ambulances belonging to a Jewish organisation may seem like an appropriate target. They are clearly wrong. Just as some actions of the IDF have been clearly wrong. To me, two wrongs do not make a right, or the world would be at peace. But to people who may have lost family members, whose homeland is being terrorised from the air, whose homes being destroyed, who may be grieving, angry and feel helpless in the face of such enormity, it could have felt like the only thing left. And after all, marches and protests have achieved nothing, so they might think "then take it up to the next level".

Important fact check here. Civilian deaths in Israel’s invasion of Gaza are at around 72,000

Edit, source: https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiODAxNTYzMDYtMjQ3YS00OTMzLTkxMWQtOTU1NWEwMzE5NTMwIiwidCI6ImY2MTBjMGI3LWJkMjQtNGIzOS04MTBiLTNkYzI4MGFmYjU5MCIsImMiOjh9

Important fact check:
'The Hamas-run Ministry of Health has reported over 70,000 deaths in Gaza, including civilians. But closer examination of these numbers displays that it also includes an estimated 22,000-25,000 Hamas fighters, around 11,000 natural deaths, and 4,000 casualties caused by internal fighting amongst Gazans. With 1,000 deaths attributed to reporting errors, this suggests that 25,000 casualties were terrorists, and 36,000 were civilians.'

https://honestreporting.com/how-social-media-got-hamas-casualty-figures-wrong/

36,000 is far too many, but not only Israel is liable here.
Hamas provoked retaliation
Hamas provided no bomb shelters
Egypt refused to admit refugees

I said all the way through the Gaza war that to rely on 'the Gaza Health Ministry' (i.e. Hamas) was to repeat propaganda.
And you're still doing it.

Look, my source is the WHO figures. Your source is ‘honest reporting.com’, an Israeli-funded media advocacy group.

I’ll start to wonder if you have some kind of agenda in your attempt to falsely represent the numbers.

What do British Jews have to do with the conflict in Gaza? They're a religious minority trying to go about their daily lives, peacefully, whilst having constant threats and terroristic acts thrust upon them. This is Britain. They are British citizens and should be able to live without fear, whilst fully protected against such hatred. Can you not imagine how frightened they must feel right now, in an increasingly hostile environment? It's utterly shameful.

36,000 civilian deaths in Gaza - The Iranian regime slaughtered 36,500 of their own for protesting!

Repeats false number
Uses whataboutism

It seems to have become nearly impossible to have any point of view here that is in any way critical of the behaviour of the State of Israel.

Here on MN you mean? Have you never been on the CITME board?
It’s full of threads criticising Israel.
Jews in London are not responsible for the situation in Gaza.

It's was for the ridiculousness, not obviously about anyone being killed, and especially not enough masse by a nuclear bomb. Jeez, way to misrepresent.
Personal attacks are not allowed on mumsnet.
I've said absolutely nothing about anyone's character and had to deal with lots of personal attacks on this thread, called an islamist, Hamas, isis, whatever else you're trying to say about me, all because I don't believe in how Israel is behaving. Sad times. You show yourselves up

Which one of the numbers is false?

Equally your lack of historical knowledge about the WW2 conflict with Japan and Germany is telling.

The alternative to dropping an atomic bomb on Japan was a ground invasion which going by what had happened on Okinawa would have cost 250 to 500k US lives and many times that for Japanese lives.

So other than writing a polite note to Japan asking them to surrender, dropping an atomic bomb was the quickest and lowest cost of lives solution.

Your source of the WHO gets their figures from the Hamas Ministry of Health so they are hardly impartial either.

It is virtually impossible to get an independent credible figure because both Hamas and Israel do not allow full free access to report from Gaza because understandably it's a war zone.

Fact is, my source is the most reliable that we have. Let’s not detract from that.

But the WHO figures come directly from Hamas so how can they be 'reliable'? These are terrorists remember.

I don’t want to detract from the ambulance attacks because they are HORRIFIC and I strongly condemn the perps and hope they are named and shamed quickly.

however, I just want to add that the IDF are also veering (or have veered) into terrorist categories. The latest case is them stubbing cigarettes into the legs of an 18 month old child just to get his father to confess (regardless of the reason, tbh, the act itself is reprehensible enough) and it is reductive to simply say “Hamas is just terrorists so we can only trust the Israeli govt” when the Israeli army is committing acts of terror on a daily basis.

Yes and the Hamas figures also include both civilians and Hamas operatives killed in the war.

They were considered reliable enough by WHO but also other bodies including the last US administration because after previous conflicts they were found to be accurate. There were at least another two independent studies, one of which was the Lancet which showed a higher death toll.

But you are out of date on your argument, Israel has broadly accepted this death toll now. However there remains disputes about the number of civilians killed.

It would probably be easier to get objective counts and news if journalists weren't actively targeted in Gaza...

(I've already stated my position upstream that the ambulance attack was anti semitic and UK Jews shouldn't be held accountable for the actions of individuals from Israel / Netanyahu. Just responding to the latest comments on this thread)

If you want to criticise Israel constantly you should come visit my city. Would be hard pressed to find a place where that’s not agreed with here. All sorts being said on these hate marches and events at my work and student occupations everywhere. Don’t think there’s any lack of criticism.

But if you conflate the actions of a political party and the army of Israel with a group of British Jews volunteering to save lives then you are part of the problem. There’s no reason to carry on that nonsense. And every time anyone says ‘but what about’ it just adds to the narrative that this is a logical way to think.