Ambulances Set on Fire in Suspected Anti Jewish Attack

[StartingStar]

Horrible news that ambulances run by a Jewish charity have been set on fire in Golders Green today.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyj1p49gdpo

AIBU to feel it's got to to with the rise in anti Jewish hate since the allowance of horrible slogans on the weekly marches and in everyday society? What on earth makes people commit such a horrible attack.

I'm 100% with the Jewish community and pray for peace.

I'm glad you think that Jewish people areIsrael's diaspora, thus legitimising the existence of the state as the Jewish homeland. It's an unexpected stance for you to have taken! Much appreciated though.

Your attempts of ' both side-ism' to deflect from what is happening is a disgrace.
You are trying to insinuate that Jews are increasingly Islamophobic, so really, that is just the same as the Muslims. But back in the real world, British Jews are not murdering and planning mass atrocities against Muslims. Nor are Jews in USA, Australia or Europe or any of the other Western countries where Muslims have recently been committing atrocities against Jews. This is a very one sided issue of Muslims murdering Jews for being Jewish across the West. Its one sided issues of violent, murderous religion based hate from Muslims living in the West to Jews living in the West. And no amount hand waving deflection from you can change that reality.

And trying to insinuate there is justification for these violent attacks on Jews because of International events is also vile. The only people responsible are those who have created a narrative that international events justify attacks on Western Jews and those who carry out the attacks.

Did not say that.
Same can be applied to people who look to be of a certain religion getting hate straight off the bat.

The hate my BIL got for being Chinese during covid was disgusting.
The hate my daughters Turkish friend gets because she is Muslim is disgusting (The Ukrainian refugees at her school are the worst for this) .

My personal belief is when you have Jewish Holocaust survivors denouncing Zionism, top tier Rabbis as well denouncing it, that shows you can have one without the other.

What boggles my mind tbh is Christian Zionism - that seems to be in support of a return to the land IN ORDER to bring about the end of days.

Have to say there is a lot of interesting reading around it all (Also a LOT of contradiction on all sides of course), and I do try to look at all that and what is going on - I don't just blindly follow media.

But at the end of the day....attacks like this are completely senseless.

Pwahahaha as I say it’s 3 choirboys from Cardiff!

I think it’s understood that we’re talking about the Jewish diaspora when we say ‘diaspora’, but thanks for demonstrating the behaviour I’ve talked about in this thread, I guess.

I am not against a Jewish homeland so take that one for free, I guess.

True Stalin did have a funny moustache but I probably wouldn't have said it to his face. Anyway that was 80 years ago and I'm more concerned with the sources of anti semitism today:

https://theconversation.com/stalins-postwar-terror-targeted-soviet-jews-in-the-name-of-anti-cosmopolitanism-265562

I'm just absolutely sick of the hatred in this country at the moment. Condemning and attacking Jewish people for the actions of the Israeli government, general hatred of Muslims because of terror attacks by fanatics . Why the hell can't people just live and let live? So much bloody hatred of people they've never even met! Madness!

You don’t understand what both-sidesism is, you’re just against anyone who would like to unpick entrenched divisions. I don’t think there is any doubt that Islamophobia is on the rise. I don’t think we can disconnect everything and see the world atomised as some on the thread would like to, it’s connected.

The insinuations and justifications you are reading are yours alone. They are not present in anything I’ve written.

The point is, diaspora from where? Obviously the answer is from Israel.

So why do so many antisemites who think Israel shouldn't exist and that Jews are white colonialists (🙄) feel like it's ok to attack Jewish people in response to actions taken by Israel. Either Israel is a legitimate state and we are therefore in an incredibly fucked up way considered legitimate targets in response to whatever Israel does, or Israel is not a legitimate state in which case Jews should not be considered a target because we have nothing to do with it.

Basically, antisemites will antisemite regardless of Israel. Antisemites will antisemite because they're antisemites. They don't need an excuse. They just hate Jews. Simples. There's no need to try and "contextualise" anything.

AIBU to feel it's got to to with the rise in anti Jewish hate since the allowance of horrible slogans on the weekly marches and in everyday society?

Agree.

The marches in screeching 'globalise the intifada' and other such hate speech.

The pro Palestine organisation, Palestine Action, breaking into organisations and using sledgehammers (including on a policewoman, and whips on security guards) all on film. Puppets being used here that cannot tell the difference between Jewish people in the UK and a war in Gaza started by Hamas terrorists and blame everyone but Hamas for that.

YABU @StartingStar The UK has a massive anti semitism problem in plain sight, online, disgusting

Okay, so why did you say ' sadly most people cannot separate Zionism from Judaism.'
The only reason for you appearing to say would seem to be because you think Zionism is a bad thing, or people are legitimate in thinking its a bad thing. And that Jews should disavow themselves from it.

Yes, a minority of Jews are not Zionists but most are. Some women were against the right of women to vote. There will always be exceptions. An even smaller minority of religious Jews are not present day Zionists but those are mainly a small 'sect' who think only the Messiah can bring back the return to the Jewish homeland and that no-one should try to do this before His return. They are still Zionists really, but just disagree on how that shoudl happen. Israel is quite a core concept in Judaism for most Jews.

But again, saying its possible to separate Judaism and Zionism seems to suggest you think this should be done, especially when you say its sad it is not, So why do you think this? What do you think Zionism is and why do you think this?

Most Christians who are Zionists, by the way, don' t have that end times belief. They just think Jews have a right to self determination in their own homeland, like me.

Thank you for making these points. It's shocking, but sadly unsurprising that you were blamed for Islamist attacks and bore the brunt of unfunny "jokes". It is inexcusable that the legions of decent, law abiding, hard working Muslims get lumped with purveyors of hate. You make excellent points about those marches and you're right, people like these ambulance burners do give Muslims a bad name, but they shouldn't be allowed to.
Your last sentence x 💯

Why aren’t you going to read the paper? It contains objective information about anti semitism in the UK. Why do you not want to educate yourself as much as possible about this. How can we possibly hope to combat it by people sticking their heads in the sand about fundamental issues?

Yes there was antisemitism in Britains past (have you ever gone to York). Anti Semitism has been around in Europe for centuries causing exile after exile. You can go back 2,500 years to the Babylonian exile. This has always been a strong argument as to why Israel was so necessary and just.

However, the majority of Europe moved on and the truly repulsive nature of anti semitism became startling apparent during the Holocaust and we vowed never again.

Given the long history of anti semitism you can’t just pick a random date to choose when it should apply from. What the report shows is that there has been an ever increasing trend of anti semitism well before the Oct 7 attacks and that in the UK there is a highly disproportionate amount of semitism in the Muslim community ( predating the Oct 7 attacks and subsequent war). In order to stop this we need to question why? And what can we do to stop these views?

British Jews are not murdering and planning mass atrocities against Muslims.
And British Muslims are not murdering and planning mass atrocities against Jews.

Extremists are murdering Jews, extremists in the west Bank are murdering Muslims. We all need to stop with the sweeping generalisations, the vast majority of Muslims in the West are not trying to murder Jews, they are their neighbours, colleagues, friends. This kind divisive language just feeds into the toxic narrative and creates further division and mistrust. Do you live in an area where you mix daily with Muslims?

You can't unpick divisions by saying there is context, three thousand miles away, to 'explain' murders of Jews in this country.
Any more than you can use context of Othello believing his wife was cheating on him to explain his murder of her ( a trap people often fall into when discussing the play btw).
Or use ' context; to explain how well your social services dept is doing overall when there has been a murder of child under a protection order, as Sharon Shoesmith tried to do.
The right thing to do is to say ' this is wrong' not look for ' context' to 'explain' it. Most people can understand that quite intuitively. Those who can't have their own motivations which block them from grasping this.

Counter terrorism police are investigating the incident and an online confession from an Iranian aligned group:

From bbc news

The claim the Met is referring to seemingly came from an Iran-aligned group, Harakat Ashab al-Yamin al-Islamiya (The Islamic Movement of the People of the Right Hand). It made the claim of responsibility on its Telegram channel earlier today, news agency AFP reports.

It's awful that this question is necessary. There are some very hateful people on MN. Imagine saying what they say as if its ok.

Oh here we go again.

I use the term Muslims or British Muslims deliberately as I am absolutely sick of people trying to pretend that these people are just random extremists and its a mere coincidence that they are Muslims.

They are Muslims, they are British, they are committing these atrocities because they are Muslim and because their victims are Jews.

No, of course I am not saying all British Muslims are killing Jews, that's absurd. But the subsection of British Muslims who are, are doing it because they are Muslim. This is rather obvious, even without looking at their individual reasoning, by the fact that all of the recent atrocities and murders in the West of Jews, because they are Jews, have been by Muslims. Its not a coincidence. Its not an irrelevant side feature. Its a main driver. There is a problem of muslim anti-Semitism within a subsection of the muslim population in Britain-as the linked report shows this is a bigger problem within muslim communities than the general population (and this was prior to 7/10) and within that subsection there is now a subsection who are violently anti-Semitic. This is religious based hatred.

@KindTealEagle

Why are you posting such hatred on this thread. Are you in the UK.

Do you feel it's ok to put volunteers in the UK in danger and ambulances out of action. Why?

My personal belief is when you have Jewish Holocaust survivors denouncing Zionism, top tier Rabbis as well denouncing it

Who did you have in mind?

Indeed. And if they are aligned with the current Iranian regime, and this was due to the current international situation, you’d expect them to attack a) Iranian monarchists and b) US bases.

But no, they’ve claimed responsibility for arson attacks on Jewish minorities in several countries.

Racists love excuses for their racism…

The people targeted were Jewish not Muslim. The ambulances are staffed by Jewish volunteers. They were targeted, Muslim people weren't targeted.

The attacks are shameful. The perpetrators should serve jail time, whomever they are.

It’s disgusting.