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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be relieved with the House of Lords decision?

205 replies

InASubmarine · 19/03/2026 13:47

I have just seen on the news that the House of Lords have approved the bid to decriminalise abortion. I am so relieved. I can’t believe in a supposed modern society women are still subject to Victorian laws on their own body.

i wish they had gone one step further and enshrined a woman’s legal right to an abortion to help add protections if Nigel and his gang of loons get in and try to pull what they did in America.

But overall I see this as such a win for women everywhere and a welcome change that will remove fear from lots of lives!

Aibu to feel this way? It’s a scary world as a woman at the moment!

OP posts:
Belinda5000 · 20/03/2026 22:59

If a woman finds out she's pregnant and her doctor tells her that she'd die if she gave birth and she was less than 7 weeks along when she found out that is not a human life. Is not the mother's life important?
I say it is very important. I live in a state were they kept a woman on life support until she gave birth to a baby .They used her as an incubator. I call that disgusting.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 20/03/2026 23:13

EEHHH · 20/03/2026 19:23

Yes i agree but not at 8 months thats a full baby, thats a funeral not an abortion.
Could you / would you honestly go and do that and walk out like nothing happend.

The women who find themselves in the situation of needing a termination later on in pregnancy do not walk out like nothing had happened (which I think we can infer from your tone is to mean completely unaffected, blasé, not giving it a second's thought, rather than just being physically capable of walking to the bus stop whilst bleeding heavily).

hedgheog · 20/03/2026 23:15

I can’t believe you called a developing baby a parasite op.

PyongyangKipperbang · 20/03/2026 23:30

hedgheog · 20/03/2026 23:15

I can’t believe you called a developing baby a parasite op.

From a purely scientific POV, its true.

parasite
/ˈparəsʌɪt/
noun
noun: parasite; plural noun: parasites
1.
an organism that lives in or on an organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense.

hedgheog · 20/03/2026 23:33

Why are women with an opposing opinion completely shut down on here? Do we not count?

hedgheog · 20/03/2026 23:34

PyongyangKipperbang · 20/03/2026 23:30

From a purely scientific POV, its true.

parasite
/ˈparəsʌɪt/
noun
noun: parasite; plural noun: parasites
1.
an organism that lives in or on an organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense.

Edited

It’s mother? I’m flabbergasted at your post.

Hemsfa · 20/03/2026 23:41

PurpleThistle7 · 20/03/2026 22:41

I genuinely am curious how this mindset works when the mother herself is being put at risk by the pregnancy. Physically or mentally. There are countless cases of women trying to have an abortion to save their own life - don’t they deserve consideration?

I’ll say that the few weeks I knew I was pregnant and had no idea how to stop being pregnant I considered all sorts - including driving my car off a bridge. Thankfully my parents found out, got me away from my abusive boyfriend and drove me to the clinic for my abortion - my dad even paid for it without a second of judgement. If they hadn’t done all that I don’t even know if I’d be here today. So no, I don’t think that ball of half abuser cells deserved more compassion than an actual living 17 year old girl.

I'm very sorry for what you went through.

Every pro-life advocate contains explicit exceptions for the life and serious physical health of the mother.

I'm very sorry for what you went through but I believe and always will that the life of the mother and the child both matter. If BOTH can be survive and live that would be great and a something we should support.

The abuser’s crime does not transfer guilt to the child.

PyongyangKipperbang · 20/03/2026 23:41

hedgheog · 20/03/2026 23:34

It’s mother? I’m flabbergasted at your post.

Flabber your gast at science, not me.

Hemsfa · 20/03/2026 23:45

PyongyangKipperbang · 20/03/2026 23:30

From a purely scientific POV, its true.

parasite
/ˈparəsʌɪt/
noun
noun: parasite; plural noun: parasites
1.
an organism that lives in or on an organism (its host) and benefits by deriving nutrients at the other's expense.

Edited

I disagree.

The relationship is reproductive, not invasive

Far from being a parasite, the fetus actively contributes to the mother’s health via fetal microchimerism.

PyongyangKipperbang · 20/03/2026 23:45

hedgheog · 20/03/2026 23:33

Why are women with an opposing opinion completely shut down on here? Do we not count?

Not when all you give is guilt tripping and hyperbole, no.

I have had 6 live births, many miscarriages including the death of my DD's twin, and two terminations. I mourn my miscarriages and the loss of my daughter, but I know that the terminations I had were for the right reasons at the time. Had they been born, they and my existing childrens lives would have been appalling. I feel no guilt.

MrsTerryPratchett · 21/03/2026 00:22

hedgheog · 20/03/2026 23:33

Why are women with an opposing opinion completely shut down on here? Do we not count?

Choice is for everyone. I will never make you have an abortion. Ever. In fact I will support programs to give any woman who wants to carry to term and parent the means to do it.

Lack of choice means you decide for me. Which is bad enough. But you also decide for the 13 yo incest victim, the mum who can’t face carrying a non viable baby to term, and a rape victim who will be tied to her rapist forever.

So no, you don’t get to paint those positions as the same. They aren’t.

OutsideLookingOut · 21/03/2026 01:10

Hemsfa · 20/03/2026 23:41

I'm very sorry for what you went through.

Every pro-life advocate contains explicit exceptions for the life and serious physical health of the mother.

I'm very sorry for what you went through but I believe and always will that the life of the mother and the child both matter. If BOTH can be survive and live that would be great and a something we should support.

The abuser’s crime does not transfer guilt to the child.

I don’t think abusers should get to pass on their genes. The choice however should always be with the woman. Women risk their lives to bring new life into the world. Those subverting her choice to pick a mate (rapists and abusers) in my opinion should be disqualified from contributing to new life.

Jasonandtheargonauts · 21/03/2026 02:49

I believe and always will that the life of the mother and the child both matter. If BOTH can be survive and live that would be great and a something we should support.

You're completely ignoring quality of life.

If the life of the mother matters, she shouldn't be forced to go through a pregnancy and birth when she doesn't want the child IMO. It's sometimes plain sailing with life carrying on largely as normal and other times both the pregnancy and birth are a physical and mental trauma to the mother.

Birth injuries can affect a woman's life forever, in some cases. Relationships both romantic and familial can be permanently affected by the process of pregnancy and birth. Perhaps a partner doesn't hang around to see how things go or can't cope with supporting someone who isn't having his baby. Perhaps parents aren't great and no longer want someone not working and contributing in their home. Not all jobs can be done whilst pregnant and not many employers will employ a woman who is already pregnant at interview. She may have been in a new job already and they didn't hold the position open for her to return after maternity leave, perhaps it was a hard-won position and her dream career, now lost because she had no option to abort. Or a child who has a terrible pregnancy that means she's unable to continue her studies, stunting her education and affecting her employment prospects, losing her friendships as well perhaps.

So many possibilities and not all of them good. So IMO it's not enough that the mother is alive after birth, she deserves quality of life. Pregnancy and birth is not just some blip that a mother's mind/body and life is guaranteed to recover fully from.

If the life of the child matters, then surely it also matters if the child has a long and miserable life. Or even a short and miserable one. Whether that's due to a medical condition known about before birth, gained during a difficult birth, or just someone unfortunate enough to have a shit life.

Adoption of an unwanted child isn't necessarily some miracle of a happy ending. For one thing, lots of children aren't adopted. Growing up in care isn't a bed of roses.

Worse still for a disabled child/adult, perhaps one who lives in residential care with staff attempting, not always successfully, to manage the person's physical or emotional pain. Or someone disabled enough to need help and to struggle getting help, not disabled enough to very obviously qualify for help, who suffers through their childhood or adult life without the help they need. Their lives matter too. Being alive without quality of life, is awful. I'm not saying disabled people shouldn't exist. Just that it's one thing for parents to choose to birth a child knowing it has a medical condition and choosing to continue with the pregnancy and ongoing care of the child, even if that eventually means a residential care setting. It's quite another thing if a child such as this were to end up in care at birth because a mother who wanted to abort, couldn't. A whole lot of preventable suffering occurring, for a child nobody wanted.

There's been talk recently of how adopted children sometimes "revert to type" genetically and follow in their disastrous biological parents footsteps, in some cases despite not even knowing they're adopted and never having met their birth parents. Damaging not only their own life but the lives of those in the family who raised them, the birth parents who may not have wanted to ever be tracked down but somehow were, and in the case of criminal behaviour the lives of the victims of their crimes. All those people's lives matter too.

Your attitude of "they're born alive and mother survived too - fantastic!" is way too simplistic and discounts all the possible situations of life that any one person could go through.

It's also quite shitty that your response to someone who shared that she had suicidal feelings at the thought of being pregnant by her abusive boyfriend was essentially "sorry, not sorry". I mean, you could have kept your thoughts to yourself and made a general post about your points that was not aimed at that poster. But you didn't.

tilypu · 21/03/2026 07:35

hedgheog · 20/03/2026 23:33

Why are women with an opposing opinion completely shut down on here? Do we not count?

People are absolutely allowed to not agree with abortion, and to choose not to have one themselves.

I've made that choice myself, when I had people (including my doctor) suggest abortion to me.

But despite choosing to continue with my pregnancy, I feel like I do not have the right to make that decision for any other woman.

That's what people on here (including me) have an issue with. Others thinking that their viewpoint is the only correct one.

Pro-choice is not the opposite of pro-life. Pro-life, as legislation, is a fixed stance that offers no flexibility. Pro-choice gives people the option to choose their stance for themselves.

sashh · 21/03/2026 08:56

Supperlite · 19/03/2026 21:52

A healthy foetus would be born and be a child if there is not the intervention to kill them.

I simply do not see how anyone can think that abortion isn’t murder.

YABU not to understand that people can have different opinions on the interface between the rights of the unborn and the rights of mothers, and anyone who doesn’t conform to your opinion is a “loon”. It’s not a very nuanced POV…

Tell that to Savita Hlappanavr's husband widower.

PurpleThistle7 · 21/03/2026 09:04

Hemsfa · 20/03/2026 23:41

I'm very sorry for what you went through.

Every pro-life advocate contains explicit exceptions for the life and serious physical health of the mother.

I'm very sorry for what you went through but I believe and always will that the life of the mother and the child both matter. If BOTH can be survive and live that would be great and a something we should support.

The abuser’s crime does not transfer guilt to the child.

I am glad that your stance has that caveat. I promise not all do. Look up the stories from Alabama and Texas and - found this just now - North Carolina. There are women dying because they have a miscarriage and it goes wrong and they can’t access care. There are women dying because doctors won’t treat them for something else in fear of causing a miscarriage. These things are happening now, today. So while your moral stance might be ‘well, maaaybe’ what any sort of ban translates to is dead women and dead mothers and grieving children left behind. On balance, I will always prioritise the living over the not-born-yet.

PurpleThistle7 · 21/03/2026 09:07

Jasonandtheargonauts · 21/03/2026 02:49

I believe and always will that the life of the mother and the child both matter. If BOTH can be survive and live that would be great and a something we should support.

You're completely ignoring quality of life.

If the life of the mother matters, she shouldn't be forced to go through a pregnancy and birth when she doesn't want the child IMO. It's sometimes plain sailing with life carrying on largely as normal and other times both the pregnancy and birth are a physical and mental trauma to the mother.

Birth injuries can affect a woman's life forever, in some cases. Relationships both romantic and familial can be permanently affected by the process of pregnancy and birth. Perhaps a partner doesn't hang around to see how things go or can't cope with supporting someone who isn't having his baby. Perhaps parents aren't great and no longer want someone not working and contributing in their home. Not all jobs can be done whilst pregnant and not many employers will employ a woman who is already pregnant at interview. She may have been in a new job already and they didn't hold the position open for her to return after maternity leave, perhaps it was a hard-won position and her dream career, now lost because she had no option to abort. Or a child who has a terrible pregnancy that means she's unable to continue her studies, stunting her education and affecting her employment prospects, losing her friendships as well perhaps.

So many possibilities and not all of them good. So IMO it's not enough that the mother is alive after birth, she deserves quality of life. Pregnancy and birth is not just some blip that a mother's mind/body and life is guaranteed to recover fully from.

If the life of the child matters, then surely it also matters if the child has a long and miserable life. Or even a short and miserable one. Whether that's due to a medical condition known about before birth, gained during a difficult birth, or just someone unfortunate enough to have a shit life.

Adoption of an unwanted child isn't necessarily some miracle of a happy ending. For one thing, lots of children aren't adopted. Growing up in care isn't a bed of roses.

Worse still for a disabled child/adult, perhaps one who lives in residential care with staff attempting, not always successfully, to manage the person's physical or emotional pain. Or someone disabled enough to need help and to struggle getting help, not disabled enough to very obviously qualify for help, who suffers through their childhood or adult life without the help they need. Their lives matter too. Being alive without quality of life, is awful. I'm not saying disabled people shouldn't exist. Just that it's one thing for parents to choose to birth a child knowing it has a medical condition and choosing to continue with the pregnancy and ongoing care of the child, even if that eventually means a residential care setting. It's quite another thing if a child such as this were to end up in care at birth because a mother who wanted to abort, couldn't. A whole lot of preventable suffering occurring, for a child nobody wanted.

There's been talk recently of how adopted children sometimes "revert to type" genetically and follow in their disastrous biological parents footsteps, in some cases despite not even knowing they're adopted and never having met their birth parents. Damaging not only their own life but the lives of those in the family who raised them, the birth parents who may not have wanted to ever be tracked down but somehow were, and in the case of criminal behaviour the lives of the victims of their crimes. All those people's lives matter too.

Your attitude of "they're born alive and mother survived too - fantastic!" is way too simplistic and discounts all the possible situations of life that any one person could go through.

It's also quite shitty that your response to someone who shared that she had suicidal feelings at the thought of being pregnant by her abusive boyfriend was essentially "sorry, not sorry". I mean, you could have kept your thoughts to yourself and made a general post about your points that was not aimed at that poster. But you didn't.

To be fair I asked her a question. I keep hoping that anti choice people just haven’t really thought about what they’re saying and thinking about a real life person with real life fears might help. I’m usually wrong.

Hemsfa · 21/03/2026 09:21

OutsideLookingOut · 21/03/2026 01:10

I don’t think abusers should get to pass on their genes. The choice however should always be with the woman. Women risk their lives to bring new life into the world. Those subverting her choice to pick a mate (rapists and abusers) in my opinion should be disqualified from contributing to new life.

Yeah maybe they should. Chemically castrate them for all I care.

But let's assume before that they spread on their genes and a child is born. Is that child any less worthy because of the fact their dad is a horrible person? Is that child any less deserving of love?

NotSmallButFunSize · 21/03/2026 09:22

I haven't read the whole thread but I always think in these debates....

If it really was about "pro life" then there would be reliable maternity and birth care. There would be better mental health support (and I work in this area!). There would be more support for women in violent relationships. There would be actual real action against VAWG. There would be better family friendly policies and maternity leave and pay. There would be better support for families with children who are disabled and with additional needs. The list goes on.

"Pro life" just seems like a way to feel like you have a morally superior stance, whilst ignoring all the other stuff that would actually support that "life" for the next 80 years.

Dontlletmedownbruce · 21/03/2026 09:23

LameBorzoi · 20/03/2026 19:37

No, that's "why did you choose to get pregnant with this man?".

There is also a lot of 'why did you have 3 children then', 'why didn't you just have one'. Often relating to a financial problem or frustration with a house situation, or stress due to workload. I've seen them when the OP starts by saying the pg was unplanned and getting a pile on. To be fair MN is enormous and 2 similar threads can go different ways.

pointythings · 21/03/2026 09:27

Hemsfa · 21/03/2026 09:21

Yeah maybe they should. Chemically castrate them for all I care.

But let's assume before that they spread on their genes and a child is born. Is that child any less worthy because of the fact their dad is a horrible person? Is that child any less deserving of love?

Of course not. But anyone advocating that rape victims should be forced to carry to term is cruel and immoral, because they are adding more trauma to the original trauma. The choice here is between the welfare of a living, breathing woman who has suffered, and a child not yet born, with any luck in the early stages of gestation. Personally I would advocate offering every woman who was raped the MAP with followup to ensure it has worked.

The difference between people who are pro choice and those who are 'pro life' is that we will never force anyone into anything. The pro life brigade - well, there is a reason why they are referred to as forced birther, because that is exactly what they are.

ScarlettSarah · 21/03/2026 09:29

Agree, OP.

Disturbing, the amount of posters on here who arrogantly think they should have a say over what other women choose to do with their own health / bodies.

I don't think anybody is 'pro abortion'. It isn't in essence a 'good' thing - I'm sure nobody would 'want' to have an abortion, they would simply rather not be pregnant, or not have been assaulted, or be pregnant with a healthy baby instead of one that would be severely disabled, or whatever the circumstances might be.

In many cases it is the least bad option, and it should always be an option, and that decision lies with that individual woman alone.

WhatMothersDo22 · 21/03/2026 09:33

It's funny how people reference the thousands of children who might be/are living had it not been for abortion, yet they blissfully ignore the tens of thousands of children who have been murdered in Gaza, Sudan etcetera, etcetera... supported by the policies of the very people who want to deny women the right to abortion.

OutsideLookingOut · 21/03/2026 10:31

Hemsfa · 21/03/2026 09:21

Yeah maybe they should. Chemically castrate them for all I care.

But let's assume before that they spread on their genes and a child is born. Is that child any less worthy because of the fact their dad is a horrible person? Is that child any less deserving of love?

It’s not about worthiness - a woman should always decide who she reproduces with. None of us are here because of worthiness or innocence or guilt. Subverting the free selection of mating for a woman I think is unnatural and wrong. Her life is on the line so she must choose. Who you reproduce with can even impact your own health from morning sickness to cervical cancer and probably other unknowns. No woman should be subjected to this against her will.

pointythings · 21/03/2026 10:47

OutsideLookingOut · 21/03/2026 10:31

It’s not about worthiness - a woman should always decide who she reproduces with. None of us are here because of worthiness or innocence or guilt. Subverting the free selection of mating for a woman I think is unnatural and wrong. Her life is on the line so she must choose. Who you reproduce with can even impact your own health from morning sickness to cervical cancer and probably other unknowns. No woman should be subjected to this against her will.

Quite, and I get so sick of the pro lifers absolute fetishisation of the unborn, as if the woman is no more than a vessel with no rights of her own.

Abortion is a choice between two lives. It is as simple as that. And I choose the life of the woman who is already here. Every time.

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