AIBU to not rent a house to our relative?

[NewNameForThisWWYD]

We have some properties that we rent out. A couple of relatives have always had a problem with this and have taken every opportunity to tell us that we are terrible for adding to the issues with housing.

Now one of these relatives has split from her partner and is looking for a house to rent. She has asked us if she can rent from us and asked if she can do so at a cheaper rate or free to help her out. We have a property empty currently as we are having some work done on it. It will be ready in a couple of months so this relative could in theory move in then. Other relatives are putting pressure on us to help her, one even said we should let her stay in the house for free and completely ignoring the fact that this woman has been horrible to us over the years.

I want to say no. It’s a relative on my husband’s side and he is happy to say no but doesn’t care either way. Neither of us like this relative very much, she is very opinionated and has picked the fight about landlords with us many times at family events making a scene. Every time we see her she makes digs and negative comments. She has also made it known that she disapproves of other choices we’ve made and is generally just very judgemental. We see her at family events to keep the peace in the wider family but really wouldn’t care if she wasn’t in our lives.

She works in a career that pays well above average wage and has 2 children. The house she wants to rent from us has 4 bedrooms.

What would you do? Say no? Rent to her at market rate? Rent to her at a lower rate? Obviously my preference is to say no but I think this will cause issues with some other family members.

I agree about never mixing busness and family.
Absolutely DO NOT rent to her below market value. If you do decide to rent to her (but nononono) then a formal legal agreement as though she is any other tenant.
I can foresee that renting to her would be danegeld. I mean anytime you don't turn up the instant she calls with a problem or otherwise don't give her premium service, I bet the fam will give you hell anyway.
BUT
Objectively she would find it easy to find somewhere. You say she works and earns a good wage, What if you weren't in the rental business? She'd have to find somewhere then.
I'd be listening to your husband on this. He is "happy to say no" and neither of you like her. I bet his "don't care either way" has at least an element of family appeasement.
final comment because I am a bitch, why would you rent to someone who disapproves of your being a landlord?

OH PS I wouldn't be surprised at all if the next step is "you shouldn't be renting to me, you should give me the flat"

I agree with other PP, to rent to her would be the biggest mistake of your life. You would never get rid of her.

Going against the grain- yes, I’d rent it to her. (I mean I also generally agree with her about landlords and making money from property etc but wouldn’t openly criticise you in the way you’re saying she does, but perhaps that does play into my opinion as well)

If you think she’ll pay rent and be an ok tenant then yes I would rent it to her

“I’m really sorry, but we value our relationship with you too much to risk it by mixing business with family!”

This has disaster written all over it! Do not rent to her.

Hell no! She's got a brass neck for even asking.

This is an instance where I would lie and say the management company already has a tenant lined up to take possession when the renovation is complete. Sorry (not sorry).

I didn’t have to spend the last 18mo on MN to learn that mixing family and business is a highway to hell, with no exits along the way. Asking for a discount is cheeky - your overheads and landlord obligations don’t get discounted for family occupancy.

Nope. How could she honestly expect you as a money grabbing evil landlord (or whatever word she used) to allow her to sacrifice her morals especially for lower/free.

It's difficult enough at the best of times renting properties and managing relationships with non-family tenants while complying with law and financial implications. Renting to friends or family adds an extra layer of complication because you are simultaneously managing both the personal or family relationship and the rental / tenant relationship, which are uneasy bedfellows.

We don't know the full financial situation of the woman and her ex or even the OP's financial arrangements but renting to a family member with a history of downright hostility and entitlement / financial disparity/ envy, plus the wider family opinion and emotion, comes with conflict built in. I wouldn't want to box myself into such a complex emotional web.

I'd rather sell the house than that. Is that something you might consider? And as for the children, you might be able to think of other ways to help: would your husband offer her a rental deposit or a house purchase deposit and provide some generous one off or annual gifts for Christmas, birthdays and the like? Even sell her the house at a discount? Would be helping the children and being free from her at the same time.

I mean...no. I don't think so. I'd create a story about how you already have someone lined up or whatever. I certainly would not be considering renting at a discounted rate to her. What if she stops paying and you're stuck with a non-paying tenant in your house, and the family comes down on her side and you're expected to just subsidise her and her kids indefinitely?! No, no, no, no, no.

No sorry, its a business... never never EVER mix business with family or friends it NEVER ends well, also after april tenents will be harder got get out.. dont do it. hubby cheating is nothing to do with you and would have happened if you had property or not.

Something I have learned over the years (particularly when it comes to DH family) is that you can't care (about the kids) more than their parents do.

The kids have a mother and a father whose responsibility it is to house them. You've said she would be able to easily afford rent in the area, plus she'll get CMS and potential proceeds from a divorce settlement down the line.

Whether she chooses to fight to stay in the marital home (like most women would do if they are primary carers for the kids), rent in the local area, move out of the general location / move schools... none of that is your business.

Right now you don't have a habitable vacant property. You're not going to kick someone else out so she can move in. It's that simple.

I would advise your DH just says "Sorry, we don't have anything available, if I hear of any vacancies in the area I'll be sure to let you know".

Very much no. You will never get her out again.

I think I would have a very frank conversation with her, @NewNameForThisWWYD - remind her of all the times she has given you grief for renting out property, and how rude she has been to you, and then ask her why she thinks you should overlook all of that and rent the house to her.

Maybe she will realise how out of order she has been, and will apologise to you, and then you will feel happier about renting to her - or maybe she will double down on her previous comments, and you will feel more comfortable deciding not to rent to her.

It sounds like there would be more challenging conversations in the future if you were to take her on as a tenant.

I'd suggest being very transparent about the way in which you set your rental price e.g. mortgage costs, maintenance, insurance, your own management time and admin etc as it's not just about covering the cost of the mortgage.

If it's just her and 2 kids she doesn't need a 4 bed. She could save more by having a 2 or 3 bed depending on their ages.

I completely understand the frustration around some landlords but I'm not daft and know you need to at least cover your costs. We rented out our old flat for a couple of years when the housing market crash meant we'd have lost £30k selling when we needed to move (job change and wanting another child (already had 2 in a 2 bed flat)) and it was a bloody nightmare, we had so many hoops to jump through because of the scheme we'd bought through and we ended up at a loss by the end of year. We weren't rich, we'd moved to a cheaper area and I'd not want to do it ever again.

Regardless of the morals and ethics of landlords, if this relative's already been openly rude about how you earn your money, I'd not want to mix her with it at all.

Instead, I'd be really clear that you don't think it's the right property for her but you are really happy to help with sending her some better options (which aren't part of your own portfolio). If she weren't a high earner and was in dire straights, I'd have given her a TEMPORARY family discount for a 12-24 month rental while she gets something else lined up but have it all drawn up with contracts etc. But I don't think that's what's needed here. I'd want to help family even if they were shitty people but proceed with caution.

I believe she would pay the rent as she very straight about money.

If that were true she wouldn't be pressuring you to rent it to her cheap or free, she'd be happy to pay going rate as anything else is taking the piss out of you, she obviously doesn't like you so will have no issues taking advantage.

This has 'I can't afford it this month' written all over it.. then what are you going to do, kick her and her kids out on the street?

Stop being so ridiculous as to think this is going to work.

This. All of this.

This is a total no win situation - whatever you do will not work out well. So just go with the one that will give you the least headache - don't rent it to her. The potential for problems here is just too huge if you do rent it to her and you will end up the losers.

Jeez that’s a VERY hard no!!!!

if you’re getting pressured now, just imagine what it would be like if you ever wanted to sell up. Or even put the rent up

An absolute disaster waiting to happen.

To paraphrase, "Fuck off!' is a complete sentence.

If you are sure she will pay and will look after the property I’d rent to her at market rate (or a tiny bit below) to avoid fall out with the wider family (if that matters to you).

You don’t have to like your tenants or be friends with them. Your update that she would pay the rent tipped it for me. It sounds as though she is a known quantity. And you would be helping the children.

You are stuck between a rock and a hard place, so if I were you I’d place myself firmly in the middle between the 2.

I’d tell her, and your family that you are very, very surprised that she’d want to temporarily stay in your house because of the vitriol you’ve received over the years about being an evil landlord. That said, since they are family, you are happy for them to stay there till they get back on their feet. That you would like the house back within 6 months/ a year. Also, you are happy to discount the rent by X amount, but you can’t be totally out of pocket in the arrangement.

Get an agreement made up, be clear on timelines and rent because if you don’t you’ll never get her out and she may even pressure you to sell it to her at a discount.

Years ago I rent a flat to my SIL for 2 years and she’s never let me forget that “she should own part of it as she paid my mortgage” when the truth is that I rent it to her massively discounted and I lost thousands in rent by renting it to her. I’d never do it again.

Moving forward, don’t use family to do stuff up. It’s not worth it. Don’t tell them what you own and what you rent out. Always let your rellies believe that you are one month’s pay away from homelessness if they are CF’ers.

Potentially a nightmare tenant and family or not you dont need that. Just say your mortgage does not allow you to rent to family members. If pressed say such rentals are known to cause too many problems.

Would the family members who are putting pressure on you be willing to act as her guarantor if she fails to pay the rent?

Are any of them supporting her financially (as they are expecting you to do re: reduced rent)?

The above questions would be my “push back”.

Personally I’d sit down with her (and tell them) and advise that you are prepared to rent to her, but that she will be treated EXACTLY the same as any other tenant.

Market rates and the same tenancy agreement, deposit etc. If she fails to pay rent then the same consequences will apply.

Make sure you follow this up in writing so it’s clear for the future she signed up knowing this.

You run a business. Treat this as a business transaction.

It’s all very well family putting pressure on you when it’s not them effectively taking a cut in income to help her.

You said “She has asked us if she can rent from us and asked if she can do so at a cheaper rate or free to help her out.”

That would worry me, if she is a good earner. Why is she asking for a freebie if she does not need it? What would you do if she stops paying?
If you do this, you have to sit down with her clearly and clear the air. Explain how complicated it all is given her past comments. And if you do it, I would make sure it is absolutely legally watertight. Because it may blow up in your faces.
If she just needs somewhere before she buys and pays a fair rent and treats your property well and you with respect, then it would be OK. However, given all she has said to you in the past and the fact it is never good to do business with family, I would be very hesitant to do this.

Can you blame the “extensive and over running” building works as a flat no? It’s uninhabitable and not safe at the moment.