To think this was unfair, and to take time off for mental health.

[Dawnchorus1]

I work in the civil service, and after returning from mat leave was given the choice of returning to my current job full time or taking a demotion if I wanted to do 3 or 4 days.

I took the demotion. This was nearly 5 years ago. I've contributed fully and enthusiastically in my role and been successful in working on big projects and having my ideas taken forward consistently (we work in an environment where most projects have a few people creating initial ideas which the clients then chose from). This despite being managed by 'replacement', being a single parent to my son, having little family support and having lost my mum suddenly last year, and have been working very hard at keeping my shit together.

We've gone through a restructure recently which has been horrendous for most involved and taken it's toll (multiple applications to apply for our own jobs etc). I kept my job luckily. Then a position opened up for my previous role. My son being at school now I thought it would be a good time to get my career back on track - up my hours and resume previous role.

So put in application. Got interview. Knew others were going for it, but being the one who had actually done the job before thought I had more than a good chance of getting it.

Invites for interview were sent out on the Friday - which is non working day for me so I didn't see it until the Monday morning, meaning I Iost a weekend of prep time. Interviews scheduled for the following Monday, so only a week's notice for me. We had to prepare a presentation for the interview (with no time scheduled during work to do so). This also happened to be the week of my mum's 1 year anniversary of her sudden death, and the week in which we buried her ashes. I see a therapist and the week before this she said she thought I was depressed - because I said I was struggling to get out of bed and do basic things like the washing up and laundry.

I worked hard to prepare a presentation. Long story short I didn't get the job - despite being told I had done a really good presentation. Because I 'didn't have enough examples on the behaviour and strength questions'. Despite having worked with these people closely for 5-10 years. They know I can solve a problem, they've seen me do it every week. Yes I could have had better answers. But last week was the worst week for me to have to prepare for this. I put the time and effort I had in me getting my presentation in good shape.

I'm absolutely devastated. I feel like crap and need advice about what to do next. Think I'll need to take some time off for mental health reasons, how do I go about this? I feel so angry. I'm not sure if they were allowed to do what they did with demoting me when returning from mat leave.

If you're feeling too unwell mentally to go to work, then this doesn't need to be justified by whether your employer has been fair to you. Conversely, if you feel badly treated at work, going off sick is not a solution to the employment problem.
If you feel going to work will make you feel more unwell then check your sickness policy and call in sick. You'll need to make a GP appointment as they'll expect a fit note after a day or so.
See how you feel then and whether you want to look at whether things could be improved for you in that job or whether it's time to move on.

The most posts I read the more I think this workplace dodged a bullet.

You shouldn’t feel humiliated about anything! Taking a step back to focus on family isn’t humiliating and no one (accept may be you) will think anything deeper about it.

I don’t think you are ready yet to step back up. You said yourself it has been a shit year with so much going on, you are seeing a therapist, not sleeping and probably depressed. No one is going to shine in an interview in these circumstances and now is not the right time.

I agree solely going on the interview is crap as it allows bullshitters too much benefit, but taking into account internal work can have problems with favouritism. There is no perfect system.

It what it is. I knew somebody who was doing a temp role in the Civil Service for a number of years and kept making applications to get the same role on a permanent basis whenever they had recruitment rounds, but never got it as she was terrible at the process. She asked me to review her written application and it wasn't answering the questions with STAR examples in the way that she needed to. I spent time explaining it her but I don't think she really got it. It didn't matter that she was currently doing the same job and had been for several years. It's just how it works.

I am a bit confused though that you have done recruitment but seem to be saying you needed time to remind yourself of how STAR works. I would have thought that would have been drilled into your brain after that.

I advise my team to keep logs of their examples so that they have something half-ready if a promotion round comes up. If your keen to stay in the civil service then I would dust yourself off, learn from this, and polish your examples ready for next time.

This. It will be about your interview responses for equality reasons. They can’t go on what others say about you or what they might/might not recall from 5 years ago as this is very subjective and open to abuse/memory lapses and such like. Unfortunately then it comes down to what is said in the interview and somebody will have answered better. They will have a list of the same questions they ask everybody and your answers will be compared to those of other candidates. So - it’s not about you being able to do the actual job. Rather, you being able to ‘do’ the interview. This is where you need perhaps to upskill in terms of question response so might be worth thinking about how you could have better replied so you can carry this forward in case another post comes up. I think reflecting on what happened in this way might make you feel less slighted and unappreciated (I know it’s natural to feel like this - I’ve been there myself) but once the initial gut feeling of being disappointed has faded, try and think critically about it and take from it some lessons that will benefit you, going forward. Good luck OP.

Thank you 🌺

Your employer has done nothing wrong. I have been both sides of the interview table and didnt get the job I was actually doing at the time of the interview. I got the same post later on. I didnt put myself forward in interview and I paid the price first time.

I've interviewed many people in the civil service and the lack not examples is a common issue. People just assume you know what they've done and will fill the blanks - we don't. Its tough but it is what it is

Let it go OP, stop trying to make it as though you were unfairly skipped over, you weren’t. You gave a good interview and have some experience, but someone else was better and possibly had more relevant experience.

Your employer has done nothing wrong. They gave more than enough time to prepare and you know that, they sent out the interview date promptly which you didn’t check until the following week, you admit you have a lot going on and forgot some things. The outcome of this is 100% on you.

ok, anyone else want to know what STAR is?

They’ve done nothing wrong

You didn’t get the job

You didn’t want to do full time so they found a role for you on less hours but a lower grade which you accepted

What have they done wrong?

And that's one of the reasons it's so fucked.

And we are all paying so much for services we aren't getting.

Someone else was better at doing the star answers.

Hi OP, sounds like you’ve had a tough time and this is the straw that broke the camels back?

I think you know you have no case against your employer, but you were disappointed, angry, and hurt and you are entitled to feel how you feel.

Try not to be too hard on yourself. Have a rant and cry, take a day or two off if you need it (or longer if you really feel too unwell to work). Then pick yourself up and get back out there because no one is coming to do that for you and you owe it to yourself.

People are being a bit harsh on this thread when it’s clear OP is having a hard time and reacting in frustration. If you’ve never done that and then calmed down later then bully for you.

Don’t let the fuckers get you down OP.

You have definitely had a tough time but gently, many people lose loved ones and apart from initial grace around the time of passing you can’t expect much more from a workplace. Things don’t always feel fair, it’s shit.

Book leave but I really wouldn’t take time off for mental health reasons, you may be depressed but it’s not a good look to not get a job and then sign off sick imo.

It didn’t come together for you this time. That doesn’t make you a bad person / colleague / daughter / mother / or anything else. Rejection is hard but you do have a hell of a lot going on elsewhere. It’s ok to be disappointed & upset with how this has gone this time. But I would really focus on how you use this as an opportunity to think about what you need or want from work / career. If it’s more, go and pursue it. No doubt, this experience will have you super prepared for your next interview. If it’s a realisation that your current role continues to service your needs whilst you wear all these other hats, that’s ok too x

Ita not accurate to say you were demoted.

You could have returned to your role but accepted a different job. Probably a good decision on the circumstances. Own that choice and dont view it as a demotion.

Then you'll know that it simply isn't possible to take into account previous performance. It has to be a level playing field for all candidates on the day and the one with the highest score gets the job. A 30 minute interview isn't necessarily the best way to appoint someone, but it is the way most organisations use.

I've sat on many interview panels in the public sector (at least 50). Im sure the outcome has been disappointing to many candidates. It seems to me that you've a lot on your plate at present, and being unsuccessful at interview is the final straw. If you feel unwell enough to be at work, you need to go off sick. If you're upset, angry or disappointed, then it might be better not to - coming to terms with this situation will need to happen at some point. Wishing you all the best.
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I would honestly look for another job (if you aren’t already). There are jobs in management that are 4 days a week and/or full time roles that could have compressed hours. I know what it feels like to put your career on hold when you have a child but if you’ve reached a point where you think you can work full time then there are a lot more opportunities out there for progression than in your current organisation.

Situation, task, action and result. You structure an answer in that order to fully make sure you cover everything.

Fair enough to say now’s not the best time for you to be taking on more. I understand why you’re upset but you can’t blame them process wise for your lack of prep. With a job application in play, you should’ve checked your emails on the Friday. You still had a week to prepare and no one gets time off from the job to prep for interviews, that’s not a thing. The fact you’re scratching around for excuses like that to blame them weakens your argument, and it’s much more about you not being in a good place right now understandably with your mum’s loss and concerns about your DC etc.

Perhaps if you do take some time for yourself and see the GP about the possible depression then you’ll start to feel on a more even keel and see the work situation more clearly. You may decide to apply elsewhere where you’ll be a new face and more appreciated maybe. For now try not to focus on the unfairness as you know you didn’t ace the interview and this other person must have by comparison, so they were the best candidate on the day and that is the process. It would be more unfair for them to wave you through because they know you. Take care and do what you need to keep it together.

Yep. I tell my team when they go for promotion that if they don't get it, it will just be down to the stupid promotion process and not a reflection on them as they are great.

But OP, you know what you need to work on for next time now and you said it might not be the best timing anyway? I am sure it must sting as it will feel embarrassing that they picked someone else, but the process is what it is and you can start preparing for opportunities now if you want to stay in the civil service.

Situation - the context
Task - what was needed
Action - what you did
Results - the outcome

or at least that’s what it’s been in those type of interviews when I’ve done them

As others have said, a week is plenty of time. Others may have had more days (or maybe not, depending if they were also off on the friday, or if they had weekend plans). I don't know many places where you would be afforded time in work to prepare and I work in the civil service. It is not up to them to give you time in work or to ensure everyone has equal prep time outside of work. If you were anticipating an interview invitation you could possibly have checked your emails on your nwd if you have remote access. My husband had to prepare a presentation on a board game he had never played, plus learn how to play it and practice this, for his software engineer role interview, none of this in work time. Kindly, you are adamant that they did not pick the best candidate but you cannot possibly know who said what in interview nor what experience they were drawing from, this is your opinion based on your own strengths. Civil service interviews are hard, I've not been successful when already doing the role before, it's just the way it goes. I'm not sure why you think they would not choose the best person for the job in their eyes. As others have said this fell on a difficult week for you but that is not their responsibility and is just unfortunate. If you need time off to cope with the rejection I don't think it will reflect well on your resilience, but you are of course entitled to take time off sick if you are unable to work. It seems that you are just angry though. I think some time to process and recharge would be good but I'd perhaps book some annual leave tagged onto a weekend to get some headspace

Look, this is gutting for you, OP, but you've been on the other side of the interview process and you know how it works. Whether or not the scoring system is fair or not is irrelevant really - that's the system that they use and you know that they had to follow it fairly.

You had a week to prepare, and you chose to focus on the presentation to the exclusion of your other prep. Maybe you were a bit complacent because you'd done the job before, who knows. But the lack of interview prep is what cost you the job, and I think you have to just accept that that's how it goes.

It doesn't sound like your employer has treated you badly. You had the chance to go for the higher level role when it became available, it's just that someone else performed better on the day. And yes, that's a bit embarrassing and very disappointing but it doesn't really warrant going off sick.

I'm sorry you lost your mum. I lost mine very suddenly just over a year ago, and I know it's difficult. If you think you're depressed, maybe go and talk to your GP. But don't just rush to take sick leave unless you really need it. It won't look like a professional response to the outcome of the internal recruitment process and will damage you going forwards - if you really need to take time off for your mental health, try to make it very clear that it has nothing to do with you not having got the job!

I can see why you are annoyed. But you clearly know that that is how the civil service works. It's who does the best in interview on the day, not who is the best for the job. So if I were you, I would move past this particular issue and focus on the other stuff that's worrying you that you can actually do something about