To think this was unfair, and to take time off for mental health.

[Dawnchorus1]

I work in the civil service, and after returning from mat leave was given the choice of returning to my current job full time or taking a demotion if I wanted to do 3 or 4 days.

I took the demotion. This was nearly 5 years ago. I've contributed fully and enthusiastically in my role and been successful in working on big projects and having my ideas taken forward consistently (we work in an environment where most projects have a few people creating initial ideas which the clients then chose from). This despite being managed by 'replacement', being a single parent to my son, having little family support and having lost my mum suddenly last year, and have been working very hard at keeping my shit together.

We've gone through a restructure recently which has been horrendous for most involved and taken it's toll (multiple applications to apply for our own jobs etc). I kept my job luckily. Then a position opened up for my previous role. My son being at school now I thought it would be a good time to get my career back on track - up my hours and resume previous role.

So put in application. Got interview. Knew others were going for it, but being the one who had actually done the job before thought I had more than a good chance of getting it.

Invites for interview were sent out on the Friday - which is non working day for me so I didn't see it until the Monday morning, meaning I Iost a weekend of prep time. Interviews scheduled for the following Monday, so only a week's notice for me. We had to prepare a presentation for the interview (with no time scheduled during work to do so). This also happened to be the week of my mum's 1 year anniversary of her sudden death, and the week in which we buried her ashes. I see a therapist and the week before this she said she thought I was depressed - because I said I was struggling to get out of bed and do basic things like the washing up and laundry.

I worked hard to prepare a presentation. Long story short I didn't get the job - despite being told I had done a really good presentation. Because I 'didn't have enough examples on the behaviour and strength questions'. Despite having worked with these people closely for 5-10 years. They know I can solve a problem, they've seen me do it every week. Yes I could have had better answers. But last week was the worst week for me to have to prepare for this. I put the time and effort I had in me getting my presentation in good shape.

I'm absolutely devastated. I feel like crap and need advice about what to do next. Think I'll need to take some time off for mental health reasons, how do I go about this? I feel so angry. I'm not sure if they were allowed to do what they did with demoting me when returning from mat leave.

You’ve been in the CS long enough to know how crazy the recruitment process is and that actually having done the job is zero guarantee of getting it. I do think you need to consider why, having been in the CS this long, you forgot that you needed to follow the start format in interview. If you’ve sat on panels you 100% know that you cannot give marks to people who fail to answer in that format. I hate the process but if you want any chance of getting the role you have to play the very silly game of behaviours and star format answers. I have just had to move departments due to the endless job losses so I feel your pain but if you are serious about staying in the CS you know what you have to do.

I am not even reading the replies here explaining to you why everything needs else was probably better. You are not being unreasonable and you were very clearly the most qualified candidate. Under equal.ops the interviewers are allowed to ask clarifying questions. So could have asked for more for instance. Or rephrased questions.
Sometimes organisations have their own agenda.and it can be pretty random. Do not take it personally under any circumstances - you might consider raising the short notice ( it seems very unreasonable) - but whatever you do try not to feel defined by this.

Yes and unfo

Ugh. I do NOT miss the corporate world.

I remember being graded numbers on my answers in interview, and the job was given based on the numbers rather than how I came across. I did think at the time, surely personality matters if you're going to be part of the team??

I'm not sure why they bother with face to face interviews in these scenarios.

It's no wonder we are largely ruled by people who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!

I sympathise OP, I’ve always found it harder to go for internal roles than external as the rejection feels more personal.

You sound like you’ve been carrying a lot. It sounds good that you’re seeing a therapist. Take care

Why do you think this is discrimination?

Op could have returned to her old job at her previous hours when she came back from maternity leave

Op chose not to return to full time hours

Due to her old role being full time, she was offered, and chose to accept a new role with the hours she wanted.

5 years later she interviewed for her old job. Like pretty much any job, the job was given to the person who performed best in the interview on the day. I have never worked anywhere where that is not the case. Otherwise, people who are external applicants,or who have not previously done the job would be at a massive disadvantage and unable to progress

How is any of that discrimination?

Are you sure? Sounds like she had an unreasonably short time to prepare due to her being part time.

You prepare in your own time

Aside from the time limit, they were prepared for her to come back to her pre-ML role. Presumably they only offered the demoted role because OP asked for reduced hours, and it was accepted by her. I don’t see how there’s any legal cause of action.

On the sick leave point, is OP unfit for work. If so, she needs to follow the sickness reporting procedure and if it’s going to be prolonged he a doctor’s note.

I don't really see the point in trying hard and doing good work in this job - if all that matters next time for promotion interview is having the examples and STAR questions rehearsed.

Does it? There is nothing in your post to suggest this is a mental health issue. Shit happens. We don't always get the jobs we want. I've worked in both the Civil Service and the public sector and there is no comparison when it comes to the transparency and fairness of recruitment and ongoing employment.
Medication is the last thing you need.

It does feel really unfair when interviews fall at the wrong time. I was all prepped for an internal interview for a role I desperately wanted, thought I stood a good chance - and then out of the blue, the morning of the interview, all my team were called into a meeting to be told we were at risk of redundancy. As a result I was all over the place in the interview and unsurprisingly didn't get the job.

Fortunately I kept my role, and all I can say to myself about the other role was that it wasn't meant to be. There is no point overthinking it and analysing if this had happened or if that hadn't happened - you can't change the outcome.

Take some time to regroup and plan a way forward. If you need time off due to all the other things going on in your life, so be it, but don't make it about failing to get this particular role.

I don't know about the public sector but in corporate land it's very common for the person doing a role (e.g. on secondment) or who has previously done the role not to get it through an interview - they tend to go for someone who they see as bringing innovation and a fresh perspective.

OP, I’m sorry you’re having such a tough time at the moment. This must have really stung, particularly on top of everything else going on in your life.

book some AL and concentrate on your wellbeing (as much as you can). Consider medication of necessary.

I hope things start looking up

Sorry you are disappointed, but they haven’t done anything wrong. You have worked in the civil service for years, you must be aware that you need to score well on each separate element of an interview and the person with the overall best score gets the job. It was clearly terrible timing for you, but that’s not their fault.

A week’s notice for interview is standard. If it was externally advertised on Civil Service Jobs you could have been checking the portal for updates, and you should be using a non-work email as the main address on your account, so they would reasonably expect you to see updates. If it was internal, you should have checked given you were expecting to hear.

it is unfortunate if the person who got the job is better at interviews while you are better at the job, but you do need to get better at interviews if you want to work in the civil service. Ask your manager to support you with this.

I’d probably look for a new job tbh. I think they have shown they don’t really value you and it sounds like you are not fulfilled at work. I don’t know if they’ve acted illegally or not re your return after mat leave, but I can see why it’s left a bad feeling for you. Not exactly a nice way to treat a valued employee is it, at a time you needed support. Poor management- as a result they’ve lost you really and you feel disengaged which I think is not at all surprising. Given how they’ve treated you I think I’d look for a new job where I could feel more confident in the people around me. Best of luck to you and so sorry to hear about your mum. Xxx

I'm going to be harsh here - if you're waiting back on something like interview offers you check your emails on your non working days. All the best tho you've worked hard and done well. You may have dodged a bullet tho you never know

I'm a G6 civil servant. Firstly, i think you should have challenged the demotion to go part time at the time. I've never heard of that before. In my Dept we have lots of SCS1 who are part time / flexible hours and even more senior managers. I myself am. But what's done is done now.

Unfortunately, in my many years of being on panels, ive seen lots of internal candidates not show their true potential at interview because they kind of assumed that as the panel knew them, they would take the unsaid into consideration or didnt approach the STAR in the same way. Sadly, that just isnt allowed to be taken into consideration with the scoring, which you will know if you have been on panels yourself.

I think its totally fair to consider whether you want to stay in your current role, move to the private / third sector, look for something totally different. Just dont make any rash decisions. Make sure you get feedback on your interview technique, consider getting a mentor (outside your Dept if needed) and above all join the union. The union would have been able to support with the proposed demotion 5yrs ago. Also get CS job alerts signed up so you get notice of jobs on the day they are advertised or application updates sent to your personal email.

Hi OP,

I’ve lost out on jobs twice to lesser qualified abd lesser experienced staff based on the “scoring systems’ of job interviews and it’s really shit.

Job interviews aren't about how suitable you are for the job and how well well you’d carry out the role, it’s about how you perform on the day and how broadly the candidate revised and remembered the likely content of the interview questions.

The good news is that everyone knows this is how the system works so just because someone e else got the job, everyone will know it’s not necessarily because they will be better at it than you or they were deemed more capable. Take comfort in that

So try and keep your head up, fake a smile and brush it off.

Easier said than done though and I’m sorry you’re having a rough t time at the moment.

Their process doesn’t sound unfair. It’s understandable to be upset, but you didn’t do the best in the interview and didn’t get the job. It doesn’t sound like you are ready for the job anyway. Take it on the chin and carry on trying to heal. I can’t tell if you need time off for mental health, but it does sound more like you need to just accept this result and move on, taking time off may not help. Being depressed doesn't automatically mean you need time off. Maybe it’s time to start looking for a new job elsewhere for a new start?

They have to score you fairly against the other candidates on the day. It’s not fair on them if you seem to get preferential treatment from working there previously too.

Her child is six. I would have had no concept of this being a cause for pride at that age.

The best candidate for the job is the one who performs best in the interview. That's according to interview processes of course,which often don't fully reflect real life,but are needed.
You need to work on your interview technique.
Ask yourself whether you'd be taking time off if you got the job? If not, you are sulking. If yes, was it the right time to be applying for promotion?
You weren't demoted - you chose to step down.

You would know the norm for interviews after the closing date for application and you can prep before you got a date. You would never get prep time during work other then to discuss with manager how to answer. What was stopping you getting your questions sorted before getting a date. Usually the application is done similar to the interview so you would have your teamwork example in the application and just give more detail
.

OP, you know how the process works. What's the point of complaining about it? They have to be fair to all of the candidates on the day, and this is the only way they can do it - if you'd aced the interview but had been pipped to the post by someone who had somehow impressed the recruiting manager outside of the recruitment process, then I bet you'd have felt that this was unfair too.

Being honest, it doesn't really sound as if you've got the right mindset to cope with a more senior role right now. Maybe take this experience as a bit of a prompt to focus on your state of mind and try to focus on cultivating a more positive outlook. Take this as a learning experience - if a similar role comes up again, you will know to approach it differently.

It is not true to say the interview panel cannot give marks unless people use the STAR format. It is merely the format the civil service recommend because it helps people structure their answers which means they usually give more detail and it's easier for the panel to follow.