To think all these mothers bragging about working full time are just using their own mothers as unpaid childcare?

[Ruddeo]

I came to this realisation recently after years of being made to feel like a lazy piece of shit by them, because I had my first child when I was 16 and didn’t have a job until they went to school and this is part time.

Once you dig beneath the surface of the full time job, the active social life and weekends, 9 times out of 10 there’s a tired exhausted grandma who just wants some rest!

We don’t live in a village though! Choosing to live somewhere with actual infrastructure does help.

I'm sorry you're having a hard time. I think it's hugely different to start your parenting experience at 16 and of course that will affect loads of things for quite a long time.

Where I live - or probably just in my social circle - the vast majority of my friends are immigrants (as am I) so none of us had any family support whatsoever. My husband and I have always worked full-time and paid for every moment of childcare we had. We never went on dates or anything like that as we could only afford childcare while we were working. But we were 32 when we had our daughter so had established careers and could afford daycare - totally different situation if you are starting out at 16.

I think your circumstances will have been different to many mothers if you had your first at 16. I don't suppose any 16 year old would be in a position to earn enough for paid childcare. If the people you know in that situation were able to work because their Mum helped out I assume this was a case of their mother offering to help out so their child got a chance at having paid work and/ or qualifications.

That doesn't mean that they have any right to be looking down on you because you didn't have that help. It shows a great lack of self awareness on their part and possibly a lack of gratitude to their own Mum if they don't realise how much they owe her.

However I don't think your experience reflects the normality for most working mums. Sounds like you just know one or two poisonous individuals

Then, perhaps, you should re-define your statement. It is quite possible that women who had a child at or before the age of 16 relied on their mothers for unpaid childcare on the account of them being children themselves and living at home. Yes, I can believe that. However, not 9 out of 10 women in general.

Having read your updates, I think what you mean is “society shouldn’t judge stay at home Mums as lesser than those who go to work”

It does sound like you know some not very nice people though OP!

I do agree that no one should imply SAHMs are lazy or some how “lesser” though.

You also said you had a "live in au pair". Not a choice available to those of us without the luxury of a spare bedroom.

This may be true among the people you know, but not among the people I know. I know many women (including me) who worked full time with young children and very few who lived close enough to their parents for them to provide regular childcare. My own mother lived 1.5 hours away and worked full time herself. My MIL lives in a different country. Therefore I and the other full time working mothers I know paid for regular childcare. Some had occasional help from grandparents for nights away etc but that's all really. Obviously this depends on earning sufficiently well for it to be worthwhile to pay.

I’m not convinced it’s 9/10 but yes lots of grandparents do childcare. Couple of days a week. Couple of days at nursery then one or other parent has condensed their hours.
People have to do what they can to pay bills and expenses, you know that you must have to juggle sometimes even if you’re part time, I know I did when mine were younger.

Same as other mothers Get 80% of childcare paid by UC. And up until recently ( and 2024) there was a scheme called care2learn which paid for childcare while teen parents continued their education. . Also included some travel expenses etc and you would still get full benefits. So you could've studied to earn better when you went to work. Any reason you couldn't have done that?

Every parent I know uses full time childcare, or works part time and uses part time childcare.

Grandparent help is almost non-existent, usually because they aren’t local.

It’s normal for children to be in nursery or wraparound care for long hours to accommodate two full time jobs.

The ‘active social life and weekends’ typically includes the children being present at all times - rare child free time is achieved through paid babysitters…!

My toddler has nursery 3 days a week, and is with my mum twice a week. My mum loves looking after her, and they have a great bond. My mum is retired but in very good health. As for weekends, they are filled with soft play, going outside, and farm trips. I go out to a board game twice a week on an evening once DD is in bed, and my partner does a sport. We manage that because we support each other well so have the time for our hobby.

This is a weird attitude. Throughout history, families have helped each other. Mothers help their children raise the next generation. We weren't really designed to raise babies in isolation with just our partner. That's the reason so many people find it so hard in modern society. That being said, if my mum didn't want to look after her, or was too ill, I'd just suck it up and pay for nursery. I'm lucky to have my mum and I know that.

I've never seen anyone act like they're better because they work full time. What kind of people are you hanging around who have this attitude? I would give anything not to be working full time. I'd love to do 3 days and raise my DD the other two. But with my mortgage etc, I can't. Most mums the same age as me work part time or stay out of work for a couple of years. I'm desperately jealous of those people, but unfortunately I'm the main earner in my house. It's lucky I have my mum, but also, it can be a privilege to have the finances to stay home with your child.

Whatever you do as mum there is guilt. I feel very guilty working full time. I feel like a shit mum sometimes. And you clearly feel guilty working part time. There's no need to pit women who all try their best against each other.

In my experience it tends to be those who went to uni, moved away / to cities, and maybe are likely to have higher paying jobs that used paid childcare.

So it probably depends a bit on your socioeconomic status.

Not really. My daughters nursery was open 7.30 am to 6pm. I worked full days. Generally I started early and DH did nursery drop off about 8, and I started earlier and finished earlier so could pick up about 5, to shortern their nursery days, nursery does work for those with typical hours. I appreciate it doesn't work as well for nurses etc who do shift work.

I don't know anyone who worked full time without paying for nursery. My mum did 1 day and my MIL did 1 day, and we paid for 3 days nursery. If they couldn't do their day certain weeks, DH or I took annual leave. This was absolutely the choice of the grandparents, we didn't put any pressure on them. DH is an only child and my brother lives abroad, so both sets were super keen to help, and not in anyway 'exhausted' by it. Everyone I know either paid fully for childcare, or did a mix of nursery and grandparents like us.

You’re allowing people to make you feel inferior, because you had a child at a young age and haven’t got a career.

You do have a job, a child and a partner and you will be able to begin training or a career when your child is older and you’re still young. If you’re doing the best you can for your family, that’s all that matters.

For lower income Mums I'd say OP is right.
People either use family for childcare or wait until the kids reach school age. Otherwise, the sums just don't add up.
I used to know a Gran on the school run who was forever asking about my working pattern and pointing out that her daughter works full time.
I thought (but didn't say) that of course she does- she has you to do the childcare. My own Mum lived 500 miles away.

This thread won't work.

Ruddeo is talking about her bubble.
Yes, I'd agree that if someone around you had children young and than worked in a job which doesn't pay enough to cover infant childcare, they very probably had a significant family help.
If they rub their work into your face, it's good for you to realise that they are omitting something and no reason to feel inferior to them.

The world is wider - and mothers in other life situations made other choices. A bit older women who earned just enough that it stretched for childcare and half of the mortgage, so it obviously made sense to work for them are more than 1/10th of the population.

Maybe restart the thread to be more venting and less 9/10 full-time working mums... while many people would sympathise with you, they can't when they feel they have to defend themselves.

So you hate others judging you but are happy to judge everyone who worked full time and raised a family. Double standards?????

We raised a family. My in laws did a couple of days per week and we will be forever grateful. It meant we could manage without crippling childcare costs but we still had some.

Everyones different. I dont judge you for what you had to do to get by. If you think that was the best solution then great. Your double standards are astonishing though

Yep that’s me 👋 both DM and MIL do 2 day After school each and I do 1 day after school.

But it’s not as great as it seems, I have an extremely flexible job WFH 4 days per week.
MIL takes at least 4 holidays per year which I have to cover, then add on sickness, appointments and having to cancel due to their own personal commitments it’s just about doable. If I had a job with little flexibility it simply wouldn’t work

You have a massive chip chip on your shoulder and lots of excuses as a side dish.

BTW I love looking after my dgc. I’m not being taken advantage of, I have them when I’m not working because I want to. If this helps dd then even better! (Dgc is in paid childcare when we are both working).

Doubt it.

I'm part time and I insisted to pay my mum for the little she does do (now he's 4, only 3 hours a week and the occasional Saturday for 8 hours!) when he's not at nursery.

Single mum here who worked part-time until my youngest was in reception and then full-time thereafter. Paid through the nose for childcare! No parental help as they lived too far away. For quite a few years it was barely worth my while working but I knew it would even out eventually. You are generalising massively.

Not me either. I pay £1800 a month just so I don’t burden my mum with childcare, even though she’s willing!

Stop being so judgmental.

Nope!
4 kids, adults now, never had anything other than paid childcare.

I work full time, although I didn’t until my daughter started Reception, I was part time until then and we used paid childcare (still do for holidays and after school).

My mum is dead and my in laws are older so not up to regular childcare.

I don’t think I’m better than anyone for it though. I know lots of mums who have it harder. I’ve found a unicorn job really that allows me a lot of flexibility and although DH’s job is less so, it does still allow for him to do the occasional school run, plus he has a generous holiday allowance that helps a little bit towards the school hols as mine is not good. So swings and roundabouts but overall I think we’re lucky and have it easier than many.

I can imagine becoming a parent at 16 was incredibly difficult and I think you’re allowed to be proud of yourself for the life you’ve built. Nobody should be trying to make you feel bad.

Gently, I think you’re projecting your own feelings about yourself onto others. I had my first child at 17, and went on to have two more. DH left when youngest DD was 2 years old. I worked full-time because I had no choice. I used paid childcare (childminder). My DM has never looked after my DCs.

I would never look down on a mum who works part-time around her DCs. If that works for you, great!

*I do agree that there are lots of women who are taking advantage of their DMs for childcare. I know lots of DGMs who are on their knees caring for grandchildren. Everyone around them can see it, except for their DCs who are blind to it and believe their DMs love looking after their DCs 5 days a week, and overnight at weekends.