AIBU to be fed up with colleagues repeatedly off sick?

[IngridsLittleToe]

I'm going to get my arse handed to me and I don't care. Sick staff....I'm so over feeling sympathetic. I'm not talking really sick staff...I'm talking repeated back ache/gynae problems/migraine/back ache/sore throat/cold/depression/back ache/sinusitis/cold/sore big toe....

They have been on repeated sickness absence management and pull it back from the brink each time. Only to start all over again. Years and years of this. The rest of the team have to pick up the pieces, cancel their jobs to cover someone else's and the sickie doesn't have any loyalty at all.

The whole time they are sick they manage to socialise and do a voluntary role. Any attempt to manage the sickness is met with claims of bullying and then they go sick with anxiety.

All on full pay.

AIBU to think they are shamelessly playing the system and should be sacked

They lost their job because they, not OP, diminished those long fought-for rights by taking advantage. It was them taking advantage that set back the cause of women's diagnoses being ignored and overlooked. They worsened the conditions of their colleagues by taking advantage.

Or they had an illness with repeat crisis, were bullied and unsupported at work ..this OP ‘loves all her colleagues but one’

Going on about ‘self described’ illness and OH as if those are bad things…barriers to removing staff

Nope this is the road to less for all

William Blackstone: Wrote in his Commentaries on the Laws of England (1765–1769) that "it is better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer".

So Blackstone would happily run a team showing up less than 50% of their shifts because ten staff are taking advantage and one is genuinely off sick? That company is shutting down within a week.

I agree. If when people are constantly off sick it means more work for others then it's a problem. That is my business.

You have no idea how many staff and friends and family I have supported through ill health, 'women's problems' or the fact I've endured them myself.

You have no idea of the impact of repeated sickness on women suffering with those issues but appearing for work covering other staff ....who don't turn up on a pattern which is predictable and obvious to their colleagues and managers.

No bullying occurred. Support to attend. We made huge arrangements, bought specialist items for each reported barrier to working (special keyboard....few months later....special fan....few months later....special chair...special foot stool...rearranged office...risk assessed every part of her working life adapted.....) Meanwhile she continued to function in a volunteer role without a single adjustment required.

She didn't want to work. In fact she became incapable despite numerous adjustments. So she left. On behalf of the rest of the team I am cheering ..

Several posters including @MoonBeamsBright have expressed concern about how they would be managed. You would be given all the support to attend and allowances for circumstances and knowing my team you'd be given extra, extra, extra and we'd appreciate you and your struggles. We'd actively help you work and keep your job. This thread is not about you

I suspect views on this are strongly shaped by the nature of your job role. For example, working in a high street bank's administrative section, my cousin is wryly amused by people who are clearly swinging the lead, but it doesn't have much impact on her workload. By contrast, her sister works in healthcare, and if particular people always call in sick last minute on Saturday mornings, that's a shift of being below staff:patient ratios.

IMO workers rights are all good and well but to be a worker you actually have to turn up to work and do some work.

I appreciate this. I work in a school, and had a member of my department who was consistently off sick, tummy bug, migraine, sore throat, virus, stress. On and on it would go. She’s get to stage two, attendance would improve and then she’d be off for a day, a week or three months. All the while her classes had supply teachers and we were doing her lesson planning, and she would be on full pay. I believe everyone is entitled to sick pay, for whatever reason they need but it is difficult not to be irritated when it is having such a negative impact.

In the end, this staff member quit because she wasn’t given a year 11 class after so many repeated absences. She said it was ‘beneath her’ to teach KS3 only.

I agree, work is about going to work for most of the time, sick leave is a right and that's great but it's for the odd time you are unwell, not a lifestyle choice to live on sick leave allowance, it leaves all of our services desperately understaffed and underfunded, and in the cases that the OP and all the others are talking about then it is dishonest.

For people who have genuine unresolved sickness there are safety nets like PIP in place for them to have the means to financially survive, but employers need to be able to support the service users properly and also to be able to support the other staff who are desperately trying to hold up the service levels for all end users to at least the most basic standards of service in the face of being short staffed and in this climate, without the extra funding to employ new staff to cover the ones always off.

All of the end users of any service deserve at least a most basic service level for whatever industry it is they are using the services of, a lot of these will be vulnerable hence needing help.

It will not be possible to maintain a good service level with the kind of staff the OP describes (ie not genuinely sick, off in recognised patterns, not even trying to cooperate or add value etc), and it's sad to see that so many other PPs also recognise that same behaviour that it must be a strong reason why our essential services are almost broken.

She should have been sacked. It IS possible to sack this kind of person.

It is possible (to get rid of them)but it does take committment and hard work. However the joy of off loading a person who absorbed a lot of my time with recurrent absence meetings, unexpected absences, phased returns, off again....poorly during the day....absence meeting, .....unexpected absence....planned absence, extension to planned absence... etc etc. One person down but we are far better off. I think when you consider that employing one person is a deficit in resources you understand the impact of this behaviour. It is behaviour..it isn't sickness.

Same in my team, also public sector.

Absolute piss takers, it's so fucking obvious - "oh, what's that, you're due back from annual leave today but you're sick now?"

Piss right off

Sounds like a good result OP. When it's your business or you're managing them, it's a whole different ball game managing the disruption that these people cause. I'd fully support a system where you have to be honest when you give ex staff references including absences/disruption.

After my miscarriage I had a grand total of 40 days, around 9 instances of sick. I could not get out of bed most days, the grief was unbearable. Then, I had a medical procedure and the health anxiety got to be too much. I was poorly. I could not work. Work (NHS) were absolutely fantastic with me, supporting me after my loss and helping me through. I don’t give a flying fuck if “some women go back to work the day after” I lost my baby, home, and boyfriend within three months. I couldn’t eat and lost stones of weight. I looked skeletal that’s how much it affected me. If I cannot work sorry I cannot work. I don’t care if work has to be done, it’ll get done. The work did not stop just because I wasn’t there. Have some compassion.

Occ health worker here for local authority. We do see genuine cases but also a hell of a lot of staff playing the system - 6 minths full pay. Etc. . Mainly because management or HR cant manage their staff and want occ health to manage their processes!

One person being genuinely ill doesn't in any way mean that everyone else is genuine!

We had a woman off sick for 6 months while running her (mlm) “business” on FB. It’s was certainly demoralising to be picking up her work while she posted all over FB trying to get business.

And another who is currently off sick but has been on at least 3 holidays in that time.

It just destroys morale even further.

Good for you, OP. I have had enough of covering for colleagues in the public sector. It’s damn obvious who are genuine sick people and who are the ones that take the piss. I don’t care what anyone says. We know.

This isn't strictly true, I work in the NHS and I have had a few sickness absences over the 14 years I've worked there. 1 was for 3 months and it was my foot. My job required me to be constantly walking around our dept and after a couple fo weeks off sick I started asking for some kind of reduced duty so I could return. I was able to attend a wedding and take a trip to see family in that time but couldn't physically so the job I had to do. It also absolutely was assumed to be malingering until 8 weeks in when I finally had an MRI and it was clear I had a severe injury to the joint.

More recently I had several short absences where I had symptoms but no idea what was going on. I'm absolutely certain my boss thought I was at it. I'm currently awaiting 2 surgeries a year later.

Because I know how sick was leave is perceived I struggle in in terrible shape at times, I have 3 sickness absences in the last year and I'd rather go into work than dealw with the scrutiny when I call in sick. And then the return to work and having to discuss health problems you'd sooner keep to yourself.

Also people are trying to keep their jobs, trying to keep their bills paid etc, they aren't playing the system in most cases I don't think, they're trying their best

I too have had a prolonged sickness for a genuine illness not dissimilar to yours and also NHS clinical, but we are not what is been discussed here. We all know these work slackers who impose enormous pressure on an already under staffed workforce! We have just got rid of one in my team too and the relief is enormous… my only gripe now I this person took a load of sick leave after giving their notice, in fact they never came back, now I am unsure why one NHS trust cannot and should not pass that over to their next trust. Maybe an HR bod can enlighten me? After all we carry on annual leave, increments, length of service benefits, pension etc. so why does sickness management get scrapped?

This is MN, where everyone is assumed to have a desk job... and if you don't then you can just do your usual job sat down instead 🙄

It’s really frustrating OP.
The only options are to manage the person out (e.g. on capability terms) - which takes time as you need to set a PIP and monitor it for a reasonable amount of time, or try and find alternative work for the person that fits with their health issues, before you can eventually call it a day. Or:
Have a protected conversation where they are offered a financial package to leave. It’s a short term financial hit for the organisation but saves a fortune going forward.

My sister's workplace almost always offers a payout to people they want to fire. Whether for malingering, or even serious things like bullying or harrassment. They find it's faster and cheaper and exposes them to less risk.

(genuinely) Pleased for you, OP. x