Not wanting to share a toilet with men at work

[Babylambchop]

I have started at a new workplace and its toilets are non-compliant with the law. Ordinary toilets - 3 normal cubicles, not floor to ceiling, with shared hand washing- turned into mixed sex. So all toilets are just 'toilets'. I have tried to get on with it, despite absolutely hating the idea, but last week the seats were all up with pubes stuck everywhere and piss all over the floor, so couldn't even really get to the loo without trousers going in it. Plus kept bumping into male colleagues where we were all a bit awkward. I hate it and I can't get over the fact they're illegal and I shouldn't have to put up with it. Dreading my really heavy period next week. Wibu to complain? In all honesty I dont think I can, but ffs!!!

Not special circles, just civilised men. It shouldn’t be such an exception.

Even when I worked with young guys they were capable of using the toilet.

Are there any compliant toilets (fully self contained) ? If so use them. What is the balance of make to female like, there are workplaces where 90% of staff are one sex so makes no sense to have lots of single sex toilets.

dd doesn’t have segregated facilities she tells me, no a legal requirement even showers are unisex but there’s only 8 women to 94 men

Every time I go out, I share a toilet with men and women. I have been registered disabled for 26 years and the majority of disabled toilets are for both sexes. They are often not very clean. I don't particularly like sharing with men, but that is how things are. I think it could be more embarrassing in a workplace where people know each other. There are worse places though. In France and many other countries abroad, most the toilets are shared and the urinals are often on view too. It's such a natural thing really and all humans and animals have to get rid of their waste products. If the original poster really enjoys her new job, then she will need to get use to the situation or leave. I expect there are men in the workplace who are equally embarrassed by the situation, especially if they are newcomers too.

Do you accept that not all men are capable of using the toilet and being clean though?

Maybe you know a very exclusive group of super civilised men, just like other pps arguing for mixed sex toilets seem to know a particularly dirty group of women. That’s quite odd isn’t it? That the PPs arguing for mixed sex spaces have such a different experience to the rest of us.

But none of your experiences negate the experience of women who, for cleanliness AND privacy reasons don’t want to share a toilet with men.

I don’t like the idea of shared facilities where there are several toilets and wash basins so please don’t assume I’m in favour of shared toilets. I agree about cleanliness and privacy (as I basically said in a previous post).

Some of the posts on here about washing out mooncups are why single, contained toilets are the way forward (if it was a perfect world!) - who wants to stand next to a stranger dealing with their bodily fluids?

Seconded.

Do an experiment.
Google your location + toilet + sexual assault then location + toilet + vandalism then
location + toilet + drugs

You will find some of the ‘who’s’ who do much worse than wee on the seat. They will be male. The assault victims will be women and children. The drug victims are both sexes - most doctors dying of drug overdoses in hospitals are found in toilets too. ‘Posh’ men (and sometimes women) also have sex in toilets and do drugs in them. ‘Posh’ men also set up cameras in toilets to spy on women, children and men. Because taking drugs and having sex in a public toilet is illegal, what design do you think is most sought after?

We’ve lost around 40% of council run toilet provision so location + toilet+ closure will bring up results too because of sex, drugs, vandalism, occasional threats to cleaners and the cost it takes to deal with it all.

Sex, drugs and vandalism have ‘traditionally’ been a feature of unisex toilets (including disabled) because of the privacy and space they afford.

The design the OPs toilets have is the safest. It’s just it’s a single sex design. It was never supposed to be a mixed sex design.

Health and Safety laws can’t rely on hoping people will be civilised. Neither can design - we need to design crime out as much as possible for VAWG.

It’s not even a U.K. thing. The same patterns are found world-wide.

It’s anyone at their most vulnerable that is affected. I always remember Michael Mosley saved a woman’s life in the cooridors of the BBC because he saw her collapse and did cpr. He was on his own when he died on an island walk. I don’t know whether he could have been saved. However, you don’t need to be on an island - you could be in the busiest set of toilets with a defibrillator a few meters away and no one know you have collapsed if no one can see you. For the sake of a 15cm floor to door gap I think we should have as few non domestic unisex toilets as possible. And that means single sex toilets leading on to a single sex washroom.

If the original poster really enjoys her new job, then she will need to get use to the situation or leave. I expect there are men in the workplace who are equally embarrassed by the situation, especially if they are newcomers too.
So why should people continue to be embarrassed rather than the employer complying with the law?

Could the company just turn the loo block into a single use toilet by sticking a sign on the door and an internal 'engaged/vacant' lock on that door... so one person in the loo can lock it.

So then you use the loo no one else can come in... but you do not swerve the issue of some people leaving the loo disgusting of course.

If it's education then surely there is a Trade Union presence. I'd be looking at joining the TU and getting them to sort it.

thanks for explaining that - it’s always good to patronise.

What part of my post are you taking to mean I am in favour of mixed toilets? I have already said several times that I am anti shared facilities in any case. Not sure how much more simply I can put it.

My point was about the people on here who apparently don’t know men who are capable of using the toilet.

I don’t want to share the bathroom space with anyone if possible - definitely not men but I also don’t want to share with other women either.

Quite - mine too. I can’t imagine him pissing on the floor accidentally and walking off, yet it seems so many men do this.

Wasn’t patronising. Just explaining. Non-domestic toilets have greater risks than domestic toilets.

One argument people put forward is that we have ‘gender neutral’ toilets at home so if we make non domestic toilets like toilets at home, then all will be fine. It doesn’t work like that.

Recent scientific studies have shown that the plume from flushing a toilet spreads droplets around unisex toilet sinks, handles, dryers etc. I would rather that be mainly contained in the toilet cubicle then wash my hands in the washbasin area, which haven’t got so many microbes on. Female toilets are cleanest. Then men’s. Then unisex. There’s various theories but it is known men don’t wash their hands as long as women, if at all.

Theoretically, in a average size unisex toilet, I think if you wash your hands and dry them with a hand dryer then open the door, you could end up having more microbes on your hands than if you hadn’t washed them.

Thank you so much @Keeptoiletssafefor your contribution to the thread - really interesting and important.

The men in my life don’t piss over the floor or seat either. Most men don’t do any illegal things in public toilets. I would hope most men would also help someone who was being assaulted in a male toilet block.

However, it is always men who are convicted of voyeurism, sexual assaults and rapes in toilets. It is incredibly unusual to be killed in a public toilet, yet not unusual to die in one but it’s usually drug overdoses, medical emergencies and self-harm.

Like I said I don’t want to share with a man or a woman for different reasons. You really don’t need to explain the risk of men being in there - I have been attacked in the past.

I just don’t want to be sharing with someone cleaning themselves up or washing their mooncup either.

But then it wasn’t til I joined MN that I found out that women ask for each other for period products so perhaps my desire for privacy is rare.

You clearly have a connection to the toilet industry , judging by comments about your previous posts but you really don’t have to explain the risks to me. It’s common sense.

We only have one toilet at work, all genders, the public and staff. It can be grim sometimes but presumably it’s legal as it’s a pretty new refurbishment of an old building ?

it wasn’t til I joined MN that I found out that women ask for each other for period products so perhaps my desire for privacy is rare.

In my 64 years I've never once been asked for period products, not even in the years I went to an all girls boarding school.

I think there’s a difference between wants and needs with non domestic toilets. I don’t particularly want anyone to hear me fart but I would need someone to hear me if I was trapped in a toilet. Thousands of people get trapped in toilets each year. Non domestic toilets need to be as clean and safe as possible. They are under different pressures to domestic toilets.

I hope I haven’t upset you. am sorry you have been assaulted. I find it difficult to get the balance of raising awareness and not upsetting people. I once had a man stand right outside my toilet cubicle. I could see his shoes. I froze. Another woman walked into the ladies and he scarpered. Charitably, he could have suddenly realised he was in the wrong loo, but there were other cubicles free. I don’t know if that was a near-miss. It was unsettling and we both waited and walked out together into the shopping centre (we didn’t know each other).

The Health and Safety Executive wanted real life examples of what happens in non domestic toilets so I started researching people collapsing and when they had been saved. However it quickly became apparent that privacy was a space for misuse too. Now I get worried about even mentioning that as I think should I make that more widely known - but it’s happening already.

The biggest experiment has been with school toilets. That’s where much of my early research was focused. There are schools that spend loads of money on listening devices in private designed ‘gender-neutral’ toilets that will message staff when a child says ‘help me’ or ‘stop it’. It’s madness. Toilets should be single sex with door gaps leading out on to a single sex area. Safeguarding is prevention and designing out unsafe places is part of that.

Yes that’s legal.

I really object to shared toilets. Believe that many men deliberately make a mess, little bit of power. Maybe it’s time for women to do the same. See how they like it.

tongue in cheek comment surely? The Unions are up to their necks in trans nonsense. If I was cynical I’d say it’s purely as they’ve found another way to bash women!

There should be least 1 single sex female toilet for up to 25 women in that workplace, 2 single sex female toilets for up to 50 women in that workplace and so on with the exception of individual rooms which have floor to ceiling doors and have a toilet, sink and sanitary bin -

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/3004/schedule/1/part/II/made

not a bad idea! If a helpful friend reported your dilemma / enquired with the right body..rgds problem a friend has at work and could they inspect