Not wanting to share a toilet with men at work

[Babylambchop]

I have started at a new workplace and its toilets are non-compliant with the law. Ordinary toilets - 3 normal cubicles, not floor to ceiling, with shared hand washing- turned into mixed sex. So all toilets are just 'toilets'. I have tried to get on with it, despite absolutely hating the idea, but last week the seats were all up with pubes stuck everywhere and piss all over the floor, so couldn't even really get to the loo without trousers going in it. Plus kept bumping into male colleagues where we were all a bit awkward. I hate it and I can't get over the fact they're illegal and I shouldn't have to put up with it. Dreading my really heavy period next week. Wibu to complain? In all honesty I dont think I can, but ffs!!!

Is it a charity or Jobcentre OP?

Can you frame it n a way that might be perceived as helpful?

’I can’t help noticing that the toilet provision doesn’t comply with the law. Might this mean that insurance is invalid , or make us vulnerable to tribunal claims?’

The response might give you some helpful ammunition as well

Education sector

Any higher up/regulator etc you could anonymously report to? The fact they've put up loads of unlawful information everywhere with regards to protected characteristics, and they're in education, is a concern you could really push alongside the toilet issue.

I know this is not the point of the thread but in a previous office that I worked in the cleaners were constantly complaining about the women's toilets - wee on the floor, sanitary towels and tampons left on top of the bin unwrapped, toilet paper dropped on the floor..women can be dirty mingers too.

Surely the probationary period is for you to ask questions and check it’s the right fit for you too

It will be this

A school pool I use stopped offering women only swimming sessions (school facilities open to public out of hours, very often used by parents) after they bought in a load of non factual EDI training.

A session attended by 75% Muslim women, in a school with a large Muslim population. Terrible that they didn't think they needed to balance the needs of different groups. What's worse is that for various reasons, a lot of the families connected to the school are recent immigrants. These women are usually not in a great position to understand what the school is doing, know their rights, or complain.

I dont like the shared handwashing. Now im premenopausal with fibroids I get in a real mess and often have to clean up and return straight back to the loo.

I've thought long and hard about why doing that in front of men would be distressing for me and I've been challenged before about period blood isnt disgusting and we shouldn't be ashamed and men know women menstruate and shouldnt be shielded.

But I saw a tweet where someone pointed out that one reason period are kept quiet round the world is to protect women as men tracking fertility could have consequences for women around forcing sex knowing pregnancy can or cant occur depending on what they want or having sex with girls because the menstruate so are clearly now a woman. Also men routinely dismiss womens views as 'shes clearly on her period' or decide someone is incompetent due to being menopausal etc.

I clearly dont believe men in my office are tracking my periods literally, but it actually made me think that my reaction isnt from disgust. Its really important personal data that is private and it does make sense that women instinctively want to keep it private.

Hello

Presuming it’s an older building, it will be a throwback to the time women didn’t have toilets. Many places were still like that in the 80s but still not to have them now is unusual. Instead they’ve been bodged.

The cubicles are in the same room. Even if the partitions were floor to ceiling partitions and doors (even worse for cleaning, ventilation, prevention of misuse and supervision), they would still be in the same washroom.

I am not sure how many incidences the Health and Safety Executive are currently getting but you could email or phone them. Ask for advice?

Are you in England? Any refurbishment from 2024 has to be in line with Document T although saying you are in ‘Education’ throws it a little as schools are not included in 1992 Health and Safety legislation nor Document T.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6901feb971b575684c3cf7c4/ADT_2024_rev16Jun25.pdf

There’s going to be so many places like this whose provision fails building standards but it has just been accepted and since the Supreme Court case, more people are starting to realise it is wrong.

This, I believe is why the government are stalling (no pun). Manufacturers are going to be rubbing their hands in glee. It’s going to cost millions to put right.

You could play on this and say when the new toilet rules come out these toilets will have to be changed. They will either have to make them fully enclosed rooms or dedicated them to women or men. It is going to take time for a lot of buildings to be compliant. Best get in there now before prices shoot up….

So it’s public sector or charity? Public sector workplaces do usually comply with the law.

I'd keep my ear to the ground for another job. It sounds like in indicator of poor organisation / an organisation that doesn't take working conditions seriously.

As a male, i find it pretty disgusting that so many other males can’t manage to hit the toilet and wee on the floor, for what it’s worth, going into any toilet, but especially the ones designated for men and having to walk through wee isn’t anymore appealing to me than to the ladies, so I completely sympathise with the disgust

The gapped partitions and doors do have a practical use, they make it easier to see if someone has collapsed or taken an overdose or something and for fire safety.

All this.

I've had to rinse my mooncup and clean my hands at the sinks with a man standing next to me. I wouldn't like to do this in front of strange women, it's private, but this was so much worse.

I'm in my 50s and thought I was way past being embarrassed, but I felt utterly humiliated (I'm sure someone cooler than me will be along shortly to tell me why I shouldn't have felt like that - but I did. Its complicated. Being a woman makes you vulnerable in ways men are not).

Even if a man wasn't trying to make a woman feel awkward, he might never have seen these things before and is likely to steal a curious glance. Most women don't even show their partner their menstrual blood and it shouldn't be down to unconsenting individual women to break this taboo. While at work.

Since I've discovered that menstruation fetish is a thing, I would be even less happy about a man watching me clean up, especially someone I had to continue to work with, rather than a random.

Which is why the best and safest solution is separate male and female toilet rooms, with partitioned cubicles inside.

Why not wipe the moon cup round with toilet paper before taking it to the sink so there’s no blood on show?

In our place there is a men's toilet and a disabled I and the few other women use the disabled loo.
Your company must change the toilet arrangements.

It's the not floor to ceiling cubicles that makes this a big issue.

My work toilets are unisex but they are individual rooms, floor up ceiling walls all round and a sink and hand drier.

A "normal" block of toilets is not on.

Yes I have campaigned for several years to make gaps a standard feature. I saved the life of a young woman who had collapsed because I saw her on the floor of her cubicle.

I believe it’s a reasonable adjustment to have a door gap because of all those with invisible disabilities and for those having medical emergencies (11% of cardiac arrests happen on the loo). Also the toilet plume of the occupants before you will be on the sink and hand dryer in a standard size unisex toilet (it’s been shown that it coats everywhere within a unisex toilet radius). You can clean the whole cubicle better by soaking and draining with gaps at the bottom too. BUT in order to have door gaps it has to be single sex toilets within a single sex washroom. I had that confirmed by HSE.

They took my views into consideration and wanted real life examples. That has been a depressing task that shows women, children and medically vulnerable people need single sex design the most. People do know this already if they think about it - Unisex (including disabled) are targeted for misuse as they are completely private. That’s why RADAR schemes existed.

Why not just keep men out of women's loos?

If it's a state school do they not need to do an equality assessment? Which presumably this decision would make them fail utterly.

You're absolutely correct, in terms of how you raise it, are you the only woman/ how many men and women are there?

This brings me on to another pet peeve - the communal trough sink. You have to wash blood off yourself and see others watch it travel to the plug. As seen in many secondary schools with unisex washrooms.

Way to miss the point.

Are you male? You seem to have a very weird view of periods, related paraphernalia and how happy women should be to share them.