Conflicted after DS hit DD and she fought back and beat him up?

[ForAmpleRobin]

Bit of sibling drama today and I’m not sure if I’m handling it right.

My DD is 9 and my DS is 11. Lately there’s been a bit of tension because she’s actually stronger and faster than him at a lot of things like running and general physical things. DD and my niece have started doing cross country and the girls have been practicing whilst we’ve been out on family walks as well as racing each other. DS is quite competitive and I think it bothers him more than he lets on that DD and his cousin are faster and stronger than him.

They were messing around earlier in the garden doing races and silly “strength competitions” like who can get who on the ground first and DS got increasingly annoyed when DD and DN kept winning. It escalated into him hitting his sister and trying to subdue her but she fought back.
She ended up properly beating him up. DN quickly came and told me about it and then I had to carry him inside and DH took DN home. He is covered in cuts and his bruises are starting to show up.

Obviously I’ve told them that hitting isn’t acceptable, but if I’m being completely honest I also felt proud that she’s confident and doesn’t back down. At the same time I know DS is feeling humiliated by being beaten up by his younger sister and that DN will spread it to the rest of the family. However this would help him learn his lesson!

AIBU for feeling conflicted about this? How would you handle it with both of them? I feel like I don’t know what the best punishment would be? I was thinking of grounding them both for fighting but then DD was in self defence so is it unfair and shall I just ground DS?

Before this fight how have you been dealing with the tension that has been growing between your children? Personally if you knew they were having problems and your niece was also part of the problem then I wouldn’t have left them unsupervised altogether.

I was always taught someone hits you you hit them back and I have taught mine the same but I would not be happy if one had not only hit back but had in your words ‘beat them up’ and had to be carried in with bruises and cuts. That’s unacceptable and I would be punishing your daughter more than your son in this situation. Your son also needs some kind of punishment for hitting first but also needs help regarding the problems that are arising from the fact your daughter is stronger etc.

I have 2 boys and a girl- the boys sometimes ‘rough play’ and we stop it as we know that somebody could get hurt. If DD was doing the same- she is not interested in it at all- we would also stop her. They are children- they should not be hitting or hurting each other, and they need to know that is not ok. Self defence is one thing, but this sounds like it went far beyond that. With experience in my work, it doesn’t always matter who ‘started it’ or what gender/age/size they are, but the use of force and whether that was a reasonable response- which this does not sound like it was.
I also agree with a previous posters about the messages it gives your son if both are not at least spoken to. What happens if he does become bigger and stronger and believes that he can then retaliate with excessive force if hit first.

This. They’ll have no relationship as adults.

If she punched him in the head, he may well be stunned or have concussion.

No child should have to defend them self within the family home to the point of cuts and bruises to the other though.

There is lots of children in our immediate and wider family. They are all similar ages and competitive but none have ever needed to defend to the point of attacking their sibling and leaving a mark. The odd slap or push? Sure but never to the point of injury to another

Op should not be secretly proud of this dynamic

Sort out his jealousy and low self esteem now. There must be something he genuinely enjoys?
Jealousy makes people very dangerous.
Spend time with him and teach them to respect one another otherwise they gunna hate each other
So sad.

Your son thought it was ok to hit his younger sister and "try to subdue her". He started it and she finished it.

Dead stop right there. Where's he getting this thinking about hitting and subduing younger girls? You need to be going through his stuff, like a phone or laptop if he has one.

You need to ask your daughter if he's gotten aggressive and or physically violent with her before.

New rules starting now. No physical contact. Period. If your son is bruised and bleeding he might need to be physically checked, especially if there were head blows or kicks. Privileges, gone. He did wrong and he knows it, starting physical violence with a 9 year old girl.

Now, your daughter. She's young, but she needs to be taught proportionate response. You don't beat someone bloody for a punch unless there's been prior aggression. This is her one freebie because she was attacked. From now on, physical fighting is punished. Beating the shit out of her bro will not be tolerated.

I think you're going to have to really supervise them, there's something going on here. Depending what your daughter tells you about if there is a history of physical aggression here, you might consider counseling.

Siblings fight but this has completely escalated. I don’t think you should be proud of either of them at all! I think it’s slightly worrying that you’re proud of your dd holding her own.

You need to stop this competitive nature that you seem to be contributing too. Yes your dd is doing well so encourage it but not at thr expense of saying says stronger than your son. You can see this is clearly bothering him that he’s now acting out.

A real conversation on violence needs to be had with both your children. Your son was that upset that he couldn’t control his emotions and reacted to hurting someone. This is something you need to address and not just be cancelling a party. You need to speak to him and work together on how he can appropriately handle his emotions, work on self regulation.

You also need to address your dd hurting someone. She didn’t just play fight, she hurt him to the extent that he has bruises and cuts and you needed to carry him inside, that is massively worrying that your dd continued to hurt someone and wasn’t able to control her own behaviour.

The possibility of your niece now spreading this through the family is humiliating for your son but also for you, that you and your dh have allowed this to happen. Children fight but this is an extreme situation compared to play fighting.

Why do both kids need to be sorted out? DD is playing with her DC and winning when DS tries to play. DS gets jealous and hits DD because he can’t handle it. DD decides not to take his crap and hits back harder.

The only parenting fail here is the way the DS is being raised. At no point should he think it’s acceptable to hit someone just because he’s jealous and isn’t getting his way. The DD however shouldn’t be told that she should back down or back off when someone regardless of who it is tries to attack her.

I didn't say boy did I? I was actually thinking girl in my head tbh because I've seen some pretty nasty fights between girls.

Nor true at all. He might have been unable to walk because she punched him in the head and he was dizzy. Not being able to walk is actually concerning - he might have a concussion. Head injuries are not to be sneezed at. If he couldn't walk, it sounds like he needs a doctor - although I bet OP won't take him, since her little princess can apparently do no wrong and she wants to punish the child who has cuts and bruises.

@ForAmpleRobin

If genders were reversed and your 9 year old son beat your 11 year old daughter so badly that she couldn't walk, would you be proud?

You may be conflicted, but you can't punish your daughter for defending herself. Work on your son - he's 11, old enough to understand that putting your hands on anyone, let alone your little sister because (in his eyes) she dented his ego, is totally unacceptable. A few years from now, he could really hurt her or another girl. Violence against women starts somewhere.

Mine are older now but I didn’t allow physical fighting at this age.

Siblings do wind each other up but your son could have ended up in hospital after this fight.

You only talk about how strong and confident your daughter is but what is your son good at? What makes you proud about him?

I think rather than punishment, you need to be love bombing your son and daughter separately, making them both feel safe and secure in their own skin.

This is a wake up call for you to act before one of them gets seriously hurt.

If he has cuts and bruises, it was more than self-defence. They both both thought violence was the way to deal with the situation. You mentioned phones. Have you any idea what they’re accessing online?

Where are posters getting that he was winding her up?
She knows she is stronger and faster and knows that it bothers him that she is better, yet she and DN invited him to competitive games
Including wrestling and physical contact.
The OP didn't see what happened and only found out when the DN came in to get her as it had gone too far.

The OP needs to stop this before it happenes again.

It wasn't just self defense. I'd be pissed off with both of them.

Don’t cancel his birthday, that’s cruel. You don’t want to push him to feel even more resentment. Talk to him about feeling embarrassed, it’s normal, nothing to be ashamed of. Help him work out what he feels/needs/wants e.g. when his jealous/competitive feelings come up, he probably needs to take space. He wants to feel good about himself, so encourage him to celebrate his own talents and strengths without comparison to his sister. Teach him to take ownership for his mistakes, it’s not about shaming him but about learning. He’s a kid, his emotions can feel intense, but hitting his sister isn’t ok and he needs to learn from it. Tell him you’re counting on him to remember that hitting isn’t ok and if (when) he messes up again you’ll still be there for him, without shame but to help him learn better ways to notice his feelings and practice other ways to cope with them. Do the same for your daughter too, being proud of herself is amazing, being competitive can be healthy but teasing/laughing at people who aren’t as good as you isn’t ok. Battering him certainly isn’t. What did she need when he hit her, what can she do next time? Encourage her to come to you. Why do they feel they have something to prove against each other? Do you do the whole “why are you like this, your sibling isn’t doing this” type of comparison? If you do that you need to stop.

By the little 9 year old girl he attacked first.

He.needs to learn not to hit his sister, or anyone. She needs to learn to control her reactions. On the news tonight a young soldier jailed for killing a man who annoyed him. One punch, head cracked on pavement one life lost one ruined.

Self control is something for both to learn and dont let her know you feel proud of her behaviour.

I just find this pretty horrific. I know siblings fight but still.
If DN hadn't come to get you what would have happened- would DD have continued to beat him? Would he have a broken bones as well as cuts and bruises?

You're worried that he'll be embarrassed when she tells other relatives? Because that's the dynamic in your extended family- that boys should be stronger than girls and it's embarrassing if they're not? So the answer is he gets better at fighting so he can't be beaten up by a girl? Because that's the lesson you seem to be teaching here.

It's a while since mine were in school but are you in any way worried that a teacher might think it's a bit odd that he's covered in cuts and bruises and won't tell anyone what happened? Maybe schools just treat that as normal now idk.

I think he has been punished enough, and I do understand you're happy she can defend herself. But both your children need to understand that hitting isn't on, and self-defence needs to be proportionate.

Its a shame Jeremy Kyle was took off air, he could have sorted this 😕

I don't think punishing either of them is particularly appropriate. They're both children and there's a big lesson in there for both of them. Your DS needs to learn to deal with his feelings of inadequacy and it's important to get a grip of his anger now. Your DS needs to learn proportionality but NOT that she should only defend herself if the person being physical towards her isn't a relative. Her brother is older than her and she absolutely should defend herself to the best of her ability. They both should be told no more physical play.

There is absolutely nothing good about this.

You should have recognised where this tension was heading before now and dealt with it.

They both need coming down on like a tonne of bricks; him for making it physical and her for taking it way beyond self defence. This is serious. If it happens again someone could end up seriously injured. They are both only going to get bigger and stronger, it has to stop now and they both need serious consequences to understand just how badly they've crossed a line today.

Agreed. This is all sorts of wrong, and totally alien to me. He got carried away and needs to learn how to lose graciously. She needs to learn where to stop, and how to be gracious winner.

As for the 9 year old having a phone 🤯