To feel guilted into being vegan??? AIBU?

[CradleMable]

I saw quite a traumatic animal welfare video a few days ago, which had the purpose of trying to encourage viewers to become vegan.

I am not a huge meat lover, but love the occasional beef burger, steak or nice roast dinner. I am a bit of a dairy fiend though, so not sure how I would cope.

However the video pointed towards the awful treatment of farm animals, being separated from their babies after mere hours together, and being slaughtered themselves at a relatively young age, after a life of being exploited.

I haven’t really considered the welfare of farm animals much in my life, if I’m honest, and I feel quite bad for admitting that. Now I’m wondering if what we do to these animals is fair, and I thought posting on here might help me consider both sides to the argument.

AIBU to now feel compelled to drastically change my diet in support of animal welfare?

Meet some vegans in 5...4...3.....2.....*and self righteous......'

What did you think happened to animals when they are turned into burgers? That they were cuddled to death?

It’s a very cruel industry as is dairy farming. But I figure, you’ve gotta either quit it and be vegan, or own it and square it with yourself. I’m the latter, though I don’t eat loads of meat, I accept I’m still part of that industry.

I don't believe you really want to know if 'you're being unreasonable'.

Your diet is your own choice.

Factory farming is horrific. I have been vegetarian for almost 50 years because of the cruelty animals suffer. I try my best to be vegan but it is hard especially as I have a family of fussy eaters. I have rescue hens so don't feel guilty about eating their eggs as they are happy chooks. Dairy is harder to avoid - I keep it to a minimum and only buy organic as the welfare standards are higher (though not perfect).

Do the best you can. It is good that you are aware of the issues. What you buy (or don't buy) will help make a difference. Supporting campaign groups like Compassion in World Farming is also well worth doing.

Bang on! lol!

I have a diet where I don’t mix meat and dairy and it’s MUCH easier to just have veggie meals than prat about with nasty vegan cheese on a burger!

But yes being truly vegan and avoiding all animal fats is tough. Can’t even have certain crisps as they have dairy type powder on them.

I think everyone (who eats/uses animal products) should be aware of what the animals go through.

I'm a meat eater and I'm very aware of the meat and milk industry. I try to make better choices, like local butchers, checking meat is uk slaughter etc, and I dont 'need' meat with every meal.

Ref dairy, reduced demand means less cows, which will ultimately lead to less green spaces. Yes industrial farming is damaging to wildlife, but wildlife has a chance in the margins, it doesn't have a chance on a housing estate.

UABU to change your diet based on that.

We are biologically omnivores. You can always look out for dairy / meat bred in better conditions.

Humans are omnivores by nature and meat is a natural source of protein in this area.

Animal farming is a way how we get it, because with the current numbers hunting isn't an option.
Reducing the animals to factory is a result of trying to bring the price down.

You can decide to drop meat. Or you can decide to just be a bit more diligent, maybe reduce meat intake and buy better. Vote with your vallet for the better treatment. Free range, local farms, open area grazing, fish, buying full chicken instead of just chicken breast and cooking several meals from it.

How could you be being unreasonable to want to change your own diet?

I’d also say that fairly obviously what we do to animals isn’t “fair”.

I still eat meat though.

No animals are being taken from their parents within hours in the UK - it's between 6 and 10 weeks for dairy calves, and beef cattle it's months. Ditto lambs.
Was what you watched specific to UK farming? Be very careful US-produced vegan propaganda, it really won't apply here.

If you like the occassional bit of meat but are worried about animal welfare, you can buy high welfare meat exclusively - it's more expensive, but if you're not eating a lot it shouldn't be too bad.

I would also say that plenty of animals suffer and die as a byproduct of crop, fruit and vegetable production - we don't get to live and eat consequence-free regardless unfortunately.

Go vegan.

Once you’ve really clocked onto the barbaric treatment of animals by the meat & dairy industry, plus society’s general callous attitude towards animal suffering, it’s hard to unsee it.

It’s telling that the main thing that any campaigns against the meat industry do is simply to show what happens.

Even just eat less meat & dairy to start with. TBH that’s what I did, but the more I thought about it the less I ever wanted to go back to eating animals.

Also it’s never been easier to be vegan, it’s not the hardship it was 20 or 30 years ago.

So you buy milk that is produced by taking a new calf away from its mother? Having grown up next to a dairy farm, the wail of both the cow and calf is a sound I will never forget. You’re a hypocrite

Do what you want, but personally, I'm going to keep eating the food I want to eat (well, those I'm still 'allowed' to eat, thanks to some health issues). That means animals will be farmed and die for me to eat. I'm not going to watch videos of it, because I don't see the point. It won't change my need to eat or my desire for more than what's included in a vegan diet. I don't feel the need to torture myself with graphic images, knowing that I won't go vegan, anyway. It's not going to help the animals, is it?

People can think what they want about that, but fortunately I don't have to care what they think.

Sorry, another thing I meant to mention, pretty much everything in your house/day to day lives comes at a cost to an animal.

You may be buying a none animal product, but what about the animals that have suffered to harvest that product?
Any pulses grown in India for example, horrendous animal welfare, the beasts of burden being worked to death, along with deforestation and predator control. Your lentil may be vegan, but animal blood has been spilt to get it to your plate.

Yabu

AFAIK the milk cattle is selectively bread to produce more milk than a calf could use and for much longer when stimulated regularly.

I'm not saying everything is perfect, just that the current breeds are so specialised that they wouldn't even be able to live in a wild way.

I suppose new protein sources like cricket flour might be relevant as well - less complex inner life we can say.

Organic meat?

Were you at the Morrissey gig the other day?

Try going vegan. You might feel relieved not to be part of another sentient being's suffering. See how you feel.

Why are you being so unbelievably rude to someone who is making the positive changes that they feel are realistic for them and their family? It doesn’t have to be all or nothing - being vegan isn’t for everyone and, whilst I don’t think you should bully anyone for their choices, picking on someone who is at least vegetarian and consuming eggs from their own chickens is an odd battle to pick!

Remember that switching to a vegan diet means you will end up eating much more processed food, food made with ingredients from all over the world...so your health plus airmiles are impacted.

Plus soya is a major contribution to deforestation. As is palm oil.

Plus you need to be constantly on top of your protein and vitamin B intake as the vegan diet is low on these (unless you go for those ultra processed foods again)

You will probably have to take chemical supplements

Plus if you're a woman of child bearing age iron intake is also an issue

But crack on. Humans developed to eat meat as a necessity so you go against biology.

Factory farming is horrible but you don't have to be vegan to reduce your impact on animals.

You can buy eggs ethically - depending where you live there may be a farm shop near you, or a neighbour that keeps chickens. If you only have ordinary shops then organic eggs have higher welfare standards than free range.

Higher welfare meat is also sold, you can do your own research on whether that meets a standard you are happy with.

Venison is a highly ethical meat - deer need an apex predator in order to thrive. If the population isn't culled regularly the herd over-grazes the land resulting in starvatjon of the deer and environmental degradation of the landscape. Venison meat sales need to double in the uk to achieve a healthy balance between predator and prey, and they never see the inside of an abatoir. They are grazing the land, there's a sudden bang and it's over.

Packaged meat comes with an abbatoir code giving you information about where it was. If it's really important to you you could find out the codes for the really well-run ethical ones. The best welfare standards are that the animal never gets to see or smell another animal being killed and has no opportunity to feel pain. A larger animal penned in and there is a fatal bolt to the brain and it is over. It is more difficult to guarantee a swift and painless death for smaller creatures like chickens - arguably there is a lot less pain and death per mouthful of beef than many other food choices.

It is not possible to be ethically pure. Even vegan diets requie ethical compromises sooner or later. Everyone gets to a point where they choose that thenext potential step towards purity is too far.

Don't forget that the film you saw was deliberately edited together with the intention of creating the emotional response you had, but the footage is not representative of the typical daily happenings, it is the very worst and most shocking of what happens in the worat places. Its intention was to manipulate, and it worked. However it's a poor strategy- soneone guilted unwillingly into veganism isn't going to be able to sustain it so the success is temporary.

A carnivorous animal like a lion is not a less ethical creature than a vegetarian animal ike a sheep. Both are just eating their natural foodstuff. Humans are omnivores and have evolved to get nutrition from a wide variety of sources including meat. I don't think it is wrong to include meat within your diet. It's healthy to have a variety and it's great if you can maximise the ethical and welfare standards of what you consume.

I respect the rights of vegans to feel differently, but I bet while I typed this and after I post it the thread will fill up with vegans who don't respect anyone's rights to hold different views and just want to berate meateaters, because it happens on every thread where veganism is mentioned. (There are also plenty of perfectly amiable vegans who just get on with their lives within the ethical boundaries they have chosen for themselves)

I've been vegetarian for the best part of 40 years after having confronted the reality of animals being slaughtered for meat when I was a teenager. I concluded that it would be a hypocritical to carry on eating meat if I didn't like the reality of how it was killed, and I haven't touched it since.

That said, I have realised in more recent years that being vegetarian isn't really an ethically valid stance - if we really care about animal welfare, then we should probably go vegan but I'm afraid I have too much of a weakness for eggs and cheese to ever be able to do that. So I recognise that I'm not really in a position to judge anyone.

So I do what I can. I try to be careful and responsible in how I shop, and I eat a lot of vegan meals. But I also don't deny myself completely.

I think a lot of meat eaters do similar - they only eat high welfare standards meat and they eat it much less often. That seems to me to be a reasonable compromise for anyone who feels bad but doesn't feel that they can go completely vegan.

It doesn't have to be all or nothing.