To feel guilted into being vegan??? AIBU?

[CradleMable]

I saw quite a traumatic animal welfare video a few days ago, which had the purpose of trying to encourage viewers to become vegan.

I am not a huge meat lover, but love the occasional beef burger, steak or nice roast dinner. I am a bit of a dairy fiend though, so not sure how I would cope.

However the video pointed towards the awful treatment of farm animals, being separated from their babies after mere hours together, and being slaughtered themselves at a relatively young age, after a life of being exploited.

I haven’t really considered the welfare of farm animals much in my life, if I’m honest, and I feel quite bad for admitting that. Now I’m wondering if what we do to these animals is fair, and I thought posting on here might help me consider both sides to the argument.

AIBU to now feel compelled to drastically change my diet in support of animal welfare?

Image from a GCSE textbook attached.

Its really basic stuff, and why the energy pyramid exists in nature.

Here's a simple video explanation for young children 😊

I don’t eat any meat or dairy, I never have.

I don’t eat processed foods, I don’t eat anything with palm oil (or buy shampoo etc with it in), don’t eat soya. We eat seasonally, so our food miles aren’t significant. The only supplement I need is vitamin D, the same supplement a meat eater would need. I was an athelete, health is great.

I think the OP is looking for more information and a variety of perspectives to help shape that choice

Given time, I may consider accepting your apology x

Not necessarily

Why don’t you just eat whatever you want?

You can come up with extreme individual cases but, as an average, most studies put the average carbon footprint of a vegan diet at between 25% to 50% of the average meat eater (the variance largely being by-country).

i think becoming a vegan is going too far
but check for welfare of the meat you are buying
and eat less meat

Sounds like you did your research from meat lovers monthly 😂

I’ve been a vegan for about 10 years now, and vegetarian most of my life (my mum was), I’m by no means perfect when it comes to ethical choices but being vegan to me is a personal choice as I want to contribute as little as possible to animal cruelty. I don’t think I’m better than anyone else for doing that, it just works for me.

For what it’s worth I’ve never watched anything similar to the video you’re describing but if you thought the way animals are killed and treated for food, up to that point was all sweetness and light then I’d say you’d been very naive.

Become vegan or don’t, if you feel strongly just maybe do something but you don’t need to feel ‘guilted’ into it.

So well said.
Compassion in world farming is a great organisation that you can look into as well and they can guide you on ethical choices to make if you dont want to give up meat entirely.

Exactly this. Going very much against the MN trope of all vegans talking about it all the time and being super smug, it’s literally what you choose to eat (and wear etc) and of little interest to anyone else.

As a dairy farmer, I can assure you our animals are treat with the upmost respect and care. Sometimes videos emerge from the industry which makes the rest of us sick because they look awful - in reality this is a tiny tiny proportion of farms (consider how most nurses are wonderful, but some give poor care), this is not acceptable and this is why we have many inspections such as Red Tractor to upkeep standards. Additionally, some videos come from animal rights groups who place themselves on farms as “staff” for years to make the videos themselves…

I really, really recommend contacting a local farmer and visiting their farm. We are only too happy to share and if you see it in person and still feel uncomfortable- then you can make your decision but don’t be swayed by the videos which are not representative of our wonderful industry!

To emphasise - we love our cows and aim to give them the best life and welfare they could have and that shows off by how relaxed they are on our farm.

If you feel guilt it means you know it’s not right and it’s not sitting well with you. Follow your instincts. I’m vegan and have been for almost nine years. I don’t push it on anyone, I rarely talk about it but for me it’s 100% the right thing. My youngest dd became vegan when she was 15 and she too is very healthy. We do take some supplements but only vit b12 and omega 3 because if veganism. I’m an animal lover, once I did the research I was horrified. It was worse than I ever imagined. I eat very well, no processed crap because you don’t need to! I cook fresh, it isn’t expensive and I’m very healthy. I won’t lie there’s adjustments, lots of label reading but it’s the best thing I ever did. No regrets.

When you think about the people who truly do know how beef burgers are produced from “farm to fork”: farmers; vets; butchers they are rarely vegan. They can sleep easy.

I'm a farmer. I produce a special breed of beef that is given time to grow and never in a shed. I'm aghast about some of the routine activities.

What you said is untrue.

For example lambs are very often taken from their mother especially if their triplet. Sometimes they're encouraged to be fostered by another ewe or fed ad hoc by a machine.

Dairy calves are separated from their mothers within a day or two after they get colostrum. Organic systems are actually worse it's in the standards to remove calves within 24 hours. The kindest milk is calf at foot but is very hard to get.

Hi - this is potentially relavent for a small portion of feedlot systems if this is the only measure of “sustainability” you are using (thats a different debate… but doesn’t take into account that for example in the UK we use grassland for ruminant nutrition… which humans can’t eat. Also, most of it is on land which is unsuitable for crop production, so it’s not really relavent. The process of rumination in these systems actually increases human edible protein

The 2021 film 'Cow' is an interesting watch. It follows the life of a dairy cow and her daughter. There's no words but you can see the farmers make things as good as they can and despite this there is still suffering.

I'm a beef farmer and I think dairy is much worse as an industry. It's becoming more and more factory like with cows indoors 24/7. I think it's cruel.

I work with a heritage breed and they are amazing creatures. We let them roam over large areas of unframed land as part of conservation. They love sunlight and move along with it for the best sun bathing. They look to the hedgerows for medicine. For example ivy for delayed afterbirth after calving. Nettles for selenium. Ours calf outdoors and are only parted from their mother when they are around 10/12 months and independent.

There are better ways of farming out there you just have to look. You are better finding a good farm. One that is transparent. Posts lots of photos online. We know a farm shop that had been advertising they sell their own beef but never show photos of their animals. Just the same photo that is 3 years old with 3 bullocks in it. Local butchers aren't always trustworthy either as more and more of them just buy in from the same factories the supermarkets use.

Be careful, there are ethical options out there.

Its true that the 10% is an average, and the actual range of transfer efficiency varies based on ecosystem, in the usual range of 1-20%.

In terms of emissions footprint per person, based largely on geographical factors, the gap between meat eaters and vegans tends to get narrower, but even in the UK (a relatively "narrow gap" country), the footprint of the average vegan is still (significantly) less than half of that of the average meat eater.

Going vegan was the best thing I’ve ever done.
You could choose animal products from farms where animals have been given a better life - free-range etc. Also reduce using animal products and choose more vegan meals.

We have cut down the meat we eat to 3 portions a week for environmental reasons. There’s no reason to eat meat with every meal or even everyday and being vegan is a valid choice just make sure you get your protein else where.

So, you watched a video designed with the specific intent to portray meat farming in the worst way possible, and were (unsurprisingly) influenced by that. However, you don’t seem to have looked into whether the video actually portrayed the truth, and there’s apparently no distinction in your mind between poor practice farming and the many farmers who rear meat differently.

i always love watching the videos where activists make general assumptions and are dismantled easily by farmers stating facts. Maybe look up some of those.

And if you’re so worried about chickens in cages - rear your own. You can do both meat and eggs.

Theres enough evidence that vegan diets are not so good for humans. And they are terrible for the environment (at least in the way they are actually pursued by humans). So find a way to eat meat ‘ethically’ instead, according to your version of it.

You don’t have to become a full on vegan, I’m like you not a massive meat lover so many dishes without meat which are nice. Maybe just save animal products for the weekend
you can easily cut out cows milk though I did years ago it taste disgusting to me now

For anyone saying about ethical eggs, what do you think happens to the boys

https://www.countryfile.com/animals/poultry/what-happens-to-male-chicks-hens

This mass killing of male chicks, often within hours of hatching, is done in various ways including gassing, maceration and suffocation, to efficiently and economically dispose of what is seen as an unwanted byproduct of the egg-laying industry.

For the arguments are processed foods, look around a supermarket and there is abundance of ultra processed foods, the vast majority of it isn’t vegan. I wonder how many people who moan about vegans eating UPFs have kitchens full of it themselves but a vegan steak is wrong..

Also there are nutritionists who will be able to help with diet planing to get a balanced vegan diet so if anyone has tried and failed without getting help and wants try again, then please get some professional help.

Just start doing it better. Eat less meat and dairy. Look for the highest welfare eggs and meat you can. Find a better balance.
Replacing proper meat and cheese with with processed fake alternatives is not the answer though.