To feel guilted into being vegan??? AIBU?

[CradleMable]

I saw quite a traumatic animal welfare video a few days ago, which had the purpose of trying to encourage viewers to become vegan.

I am not a huge meat lover, but love the occasional beef burger, steak or nice roast dinner. I am a bit of a dairy fiend though, so not sure how I would cope.

However the video pointed towards the awful treatment of farm animals, being separated from their babies after mere hours together, and being slaughtered themselves at a relatively young age, after a life of being exploited.

I haven’t really considered the welfare of farm animals much in my life, if I’m honest, and I feel quite bad for admitting that. Now I’m wondering if what we do to these animals is fair, and I thought posting on here might help me consider both sides to the argument.

AIBU to now feel compelled to drastically change my diet in support of animal welfare?

My house is painted with vegan paint. Want to keep trying to gotcha me? Put your mobile search into chat gpt and you'll get a different answer.

I suggest you sod off. I have NO time for people like you shouting "house paint"

Just shut up- eh.

@Iris2020 easy for billions of humans throughout human history too.
I think your guilty conscience might be riled 😊

There's more self righteous meat eaters on here than vegans.

Bank notes. House Paint -gotcha!

Spent a life time responding to these types.
🥱

Not at all. I'm just a stickler for consistency and was just interested to see recent studies which identify the genes linked with vegetarianism and their metabolic properties.
That explains exactly why billions of people have managed to be vegan and others can't ... even if you offer them a billion pounds.

I'm amused by how staunchly preaching vegans look the other way at this developing area of knowledge and point blank refuse to address it.

OP just take the plunge, you won't ever regret feeling morally superior to people who think it's funny to goad people who believe animals should be treated kindly. 😁

Sorry but this isn’t true and even a cursory google would tell you so. I can sort of understand when people have differing opinions of eating animals because that’s a matter of your personal beliefs and ethics, but arguments about what is better for the environment wind me up because this is something that is very measurable and widely studied!

Transport is a fairly small part of food production’s carbon output and while there are some outliers (poultry isn’t anywhere near as damaging as beef, chocolate and coffee are much more resource intensive than other plant products) on the whole plant based foods are much less environmentally damaging than meat and dairy. A vegan diet is demonstrably much more environmentally friendly.

”All five environmental impacts were associated with the amount of animal-based food consumed. The impacts of vegans were a quarter of those of high meat eaters for greenhouse gas emissions, and land use, just 27% of the impacts for water pollution, 46% for water use and 34% for biodiversity.”

https://www.alumni.ox.ac.uk/article/less-meat-better-for-environment

Really interesting graph re: carbon footprint of different foods and what proportion of it is caused by transport:

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/food-emissions-supply-chain

There’s also a really interesting book called “How Bad Are Bananas?” which goes into the carbon footprint of loads of different things (bananas, interestingly, despite being shipped halfway across the world are actually not that bad at all)

No i get that some humans have systems that need meat. It doesn't make much sense as our digestive tracts are so long (compare with cats') and i will look for the literature; until then I can't believe it's more than a fractional amount. Just as there are overweight people who aee genetically disposed to carrying more weight.. but the vast majority just eat too much.

How dare I paint my flat

@UniquePinkSwan how does getting meat from the local farm constitute 'doing your bit'? for whom?

My house is daubed with the blood of infants. Does that mean I'm no longer vegan?

Better life before slaughter I assume.

It’s not about the old paint argument it’s just being aware that animal derivatives are used in house building and internal decoration, animal derivatives are also used in electrical cable and other essential household items and equipment yes you said you use vegan paint, don’t use uk money but honestly I can probably come to your home and immediately pick out something with animal proteins in it, I really do applaud you for your beliefs and I genuinely do mean that in a non sarcastic way but I also would appreciate you to acknowledge that in modern society it isn’t possible to be without animal proteins, yes sorry I picked out paint as an example but you made a good point of saying you don’t use cash well debit and credit card production contains tallow in its early production

The initial studies suggest it's far from marginal.

This is an interest read.
https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0291305

"In conclusion, our findings add to the existing body of data pointing to the genetic contribution to dietary choices and raise the possibility that lipid metabolism and its role in brain function may play a role in the ability to subsist long-term on a strict vegetarian diet. Further studies are required to determine which of the genes we identified play an important role in choosing a vegetarian diet; what particular variants of those genes underlie the vegetarianism phenotype and the mechanisms by which they contribute to this phenotype. It is tempting to speculate that meat may contain unique lipid components that vegetarians are able to adequately synthesize endogenously, whereas others need to obtain them from a meat-containing diet. A better understanding of the physiologic pathways involved in choosing a vegetarian diet is needed in order to design more effective dietary recommendations and interventions."

Yes, it's pretty much impossible to live in the modern world without using things that have some sort of animal part in them. That's why the vegan society says 'vegans avoid animal products wherever practically possible'

pig crates am sure are banned in the uk same as veal crates plus you can buy outdoor reared

You can also get milk from certain farms where the calve is still on its mum and they just take so much away and lots of farmers now adays use sexed semen so no bull calf's to kill or rear

calves must be kept with their mother for at least five weeks before they are weaned
This is false.

If someone wants to eat meat, that's their choice. If they want to limit their meat intake, either by volume or welfare, that's their choice too. The amount of outright falsehoods being peddled as arguments in this thread, though, is beyond comical.

What percentage of the meat reared in the uk is outdoor reared I wonder?
Ooh, about 15%.
But 53% meat is imported and not subject to our welfare standards..my maths isn't good enough... but most animals eaten in the uk have lived a miserable life before being slaughtered.

Only 5% chickens ever see the light of day.
Not quite the gotcha you'd hoped for.

How much of this milk supplies supermarkets i wonder?
It's a fantasy.

Veganism just impacts other animals...

1 cow makes about 400 McDonald's cheeseburgers. So if you ate a McDs every day for a year you ate 1 cow

If you eat tofu - they kill every mouse, rat, rabbit, squirrel, vole, bird in the field of crop. As well as a variety of insects..

Veganism means you arent eating animal flesh - but plenty were killed to cultivate the crop.

Im not passing judgement on people who choose veganism, but I am saying it also impacts if its just about the animals.

Maybe reduce your meat in take or research ethical meat sources, a lot of farmers do care for their animals and try to give them good lives. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Veganism just impacts other animals...

1 cow makes about 400 McDonald's cheeseburgers. So if you ate a McDs every day for a year you ate 1 cow

If you eat tofu - they kill every mouse, rat, rabbit, squirrel, vole, bird in the field of crop. As well as a variety of insects..

Veganism means you arent eating animal flesh - but plenty were killed to cultivate the crop.

Im not passing judgement on people who choose veganism, but I am saying it also impacts if its just about the animals.

Maybe reduce your meat in take or research ethical meat sources, a lot of farmers do care for their animals and try to give them good lives. Best of luck with whatever you decide.

Thanks for this. I mean this with no faeticiousness: i wonder if the documented risk of digestive related diseases is outweighed by the physiological issues outlined here?
It would seem odd that a significant percentage of humans fell into this bracket, given our likeness to herbivourous gorillas, but happy to be challenged on this, will read.

@Laura95167 what do you think the cow is being fed?
How much more of that feed does it take to make the burger than eating the equivalent plants?
It's all about scale, and the land use needed to produce meat is many more times that of equivalent plant calories. So your vole body count is much higher for meat.

Im just trying to make the point, animals are impacted regardless of what we eat. Theyre killed for food, or to grow food.

I absolutely support anyone's choice with whatever diet best suits their needs and morals.