To feel guilted into being vegan??? AIBU?

[CradleMable]

I saw quite a traumatic animal welfare video a few days ago, which had the purpose of trying to encourage viewers to become vegan.

I am not a huge meat lover, but love the occasional beef burger, steak or nice roast dinner. I am a bit of a dairy fiend though, so not sure how I would cope.

However the video pointed towards the awful treatment of farm animals, being separated from their babies after mere hours together, and being slaughtered themselves at a relatively young age, after a life of being exploited.

I haven’t really considered the welfare of farm animals much in my life, if I’m honest, and I feel quite bad for admitting that. Now I’m wondering if what we do to these animals is fair, and I thought posting on here might help me consider both sides to the argument.

AIBU to now feel compelled to drastically change my diet in support of animal welfare?

Cathedral city vegan cheese pretty much tastes the same, it goes off quick though. I've not used it in cooking, only on top of a spud or in sarnies and it's really nice.

I've not eaten meat for 40 years. B12 and iron is easily replaced. I use liquid iron as no side-effects and a melt under the tongue B12. And iron infusions work very well if get into a pickle. I lapsed into taking iron for a bit as well as having health troubles and went and paid for an iron infusion.

And where are these cages you speak of? Are they used in the UK?

You ignored the rabbits.

I've tried Cathedral City and it's okay as a cheddar, but there's not a lot of variety in comparison to what the dairy industry has. I do eat vegan cheeses, but am mostly now eating Kinda which, if not mimicking dairy, are interesting in themselves.

This might not be used in the UK but when you buy meat either in a supermarket or a restaurant or you eat in someone’s house or a sandwich are you really checking which country the meat comes from?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/jul/21/saving-the-bacon-will-british-pig-farmers-survive-ban-on-cages

I know several people who might buy the odd bit from a local butcher (which in itself doesn’t guarantee anything) but insist they only eat free range whilst buying prepacked sandwiches and eating in random places which make no such claims

You can buy more ethical meat. You can also reduce your meat consumption, if not completely. Every little helps. Either way, yes things like being separated from birth (dairy) and male chicks grinded up (quickly) will always happen. Only you can decide.

I do eat meat. It's not cognitive dissonance, it's facts I accept as true.

If you avoid leather, you're just using more plastic. Fake fur is sending more microplastics into the world/water.

If you exist, you're going to have an impact.

None of this is necessarily true.
it is quite possible to be vegan and still avoid processed food/ingredients from all over the world. You can avoid soya and palm oil.
A vegan diet can absolutely provide enough protein, vitamin B and iron. A friend of mine has been vegan most of her life, and when she was pregnant she did worry about nutrient levels, but her doctors and nurses consistently told her her levels were fine, in fact very healthy.
Humans developed to eat meat as a necessity simply isn't true.

FWIW I'm an omnivore, so no particular skin in the game.

I won’t entertain going vegan myself. But I do care deeply about welfare so do what I can to offset. I have my own chickens for eggs, tend to buy meat from a friend who drives the animals to a small slaughter house herself and eat game when it’s seasonal. I don’t agree with factory farming and eat as minimally farmed meat as possible. Unfortunately, our mere existence impacts on other animals. Even the growing of the pulses etc for vegan alternatives harms animals.
Good for you for wanting to make a positive change.

If you avoid leather you are just using more plastic. Id personally not wear the skin from a worn out dairy cow.

Only if you use vegan leather. Which I don't. As for fake fur. If I don't want to wear real fur. I don't want to wear fake fur either

It's not just separated from birth -male calves are often shot in the head at a day old -seen as a useless by product of the dairy industry

Higher quality meats -there meats labelled as high quality that aren't. RSPCA approved and red tractor spring to mind There were also concerns about conditions on farms that help produce Cathedral City cheese

I would also point out that a meat eating diet actually involves much more soy production than a vegan one- the vast majority of soy grown worldwide is actually used for animal feed for farming meat and dairy. It uses much less and is much more efficient to eat soy directly.

https://www.wwf.org.uk/updates/soy-story

https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/soybean-production-and-use

Well there’s animal proteins in all electronic devices and some home products and I also believe in modern bank notes (I could be mistaken on that part though) we use so unless you fancy living in a cave you can’t avoid animal proteins so just crack on and enjoy your steak

Yeah. Dairy cows abused on farms that supply milk for Cathedral City. Been in the news fairly recently

I have worked on various farms over the years. I have vegan and vegetarian friends, who don't push their thoughts onto me, and I don't try to ram steaks down their throats. I have seen some pro-vegan videos. While I agree that some are awful and those people should not be permitted to work with animals (e.g. one where cows were being hit with shovels), some do misunderstand some "normal" farming practices, e.g. if a cow falls, she can do what's known as 'the splits', which can damage her muscles, ligaments and tendons, or even break a bone. She may be unable to walk without wearing a pair of shackles- two bands of material around her ankles, with a chain in the middle- which stop her legs from splaying outwards. She might need to be lifted to help her get back on her feet (how else do you lift or move the best part of a 700kg animal without a JCB?), or moved elsewhere to an area such as a straw pen, where she is less likely to slip, and more likely to be able to get back on her feet.

What you see on the videos can be horrific, but sometimes they do need a bit of understanding from a farming background (like the shackles and moving them with JCBs). I don't want to be involved in a bunfight, so please don't flame me for farming. If we all stopped eating meat and dairy, cows, sheep and other animals would become feral vermin. All of the vegetables and some things that vegans eat also grows on a farm, too... and manure is one of the most natural and successful things to nourish crops with.

You don't have to go the whole hog (if you'll excuse the pun). Perfection can be the enemy of good, because there is huge benefit to both animal welfare and the environment if you cut down on your meat and dairy consumption, even if you don't give them up completely.

You could try having a couple of vegan days per week and use them as an opportunity to find vegan alternatives you like (for example, I'm not fully vegan but I switched to oat milk for all of my coffees because I actually like it). Then when you do buy meat or dairy, buy the best quality showing highest welfare standards using the money you've saved from eating less of it.

In time you'll either move more towards being fully vegetarian or vegan if it's working for you, or you'll decide you're happy with the way things are, but will still have reduced your contribution to environmental damage and cruelty to animals by reducing your consumption of animal products.

Well exactly. And you are also being unreasonable to think anyone cares about what you eat.

Some farms do abuse animals. The Cathedral City suppliers abuse happens for over three years on one farm -some animals are unfortunately abused in slaughterhouses too. They don't even get dignity at the end of their lives

We profess to be a nation of animal lovers. Too many people don't associate what's on their plate with misery

Ridiculous argument

One of the daftest arguments against being vegan!!!!!! Just think about this logically please.

Literally no animals are directly killed to be eaten by a vegan. That’s the point.

As for all the wildlife harmed by growing and harvesting crops and veg….. most of those crops are used as animal feed, and the other crops and veg are eaten by vegans and omnivores.

All that environmental destruction to grow soy - what do you think that soy is for?????

One film worth watching re veganism is vegucated-its on you tube. It's not particularly gory at all but it's a good watch. It's about a group of people who are challenged to go vegan for six weeks

Why is it? If your actively using animal proteins in your day to day life why is it any different to eating animal proteins in your diet

Eat whatever you want, it's your choice. Don't kid yourself that it 's possible to eat entirely ethically on any diet though. The food miles are higher for vegans eating imported nuts and legumes that don't grow here. Avocado farming has horrific consequences for humans being turfed out of their homes for monoculture. Plus all the bugs killed with pesticides are just as dead as the baby mammals we eat. You just need to decide what level of unethical you are happy with.

I don’t think any vegan thinks they are 100% perfect and guilt free.

But we are cutting out as many foods and products that directly kill or harm animals and doing the best we can.

How that is criticised and belittled will always baffle me. “But avocados tho…” yeah ok

Paper notes are polymer free

You're incorrect about phones

I can't remember the last time I used cash

I don't want to eat meat. Hth

Always someone trying to gotcha

Food miles are only a small part of the picture. The environmental impact of beef purchased direct from a farm next door to your house is significantly worse than the environmental impact of imported avocados. You can see it here - Environmental Impacts of Food Data Explorer - Our World in Data. Greenhouse gas emissions per kilogram of beef are so much higher than any plant-based food, even those coming from abroad.

Same with milk - people understandably get concerned about the environmental impact of almond milk, but it's so much less impactful than dairy: Dairy vs. plant-based milk: what are the environmental impacts? - Our World in Data

So yes, there are definitely ethical pros and cons to any diet, but if you're talking about the environment specifically, meat and dairy are significantly worse than any other form of food, regardless of where it comes from.