AIBU to exclude 1 child from friendship group from DS party??

[Louisa80s]

Please help me out here...
DS is turning 9 in a few weeks and we have a party booked for up to 12 people. Currently at 10 with numbers.
DS is quiet and lacks confidence a little, but has a really lovely tight-knit group of boy mates. There is 1 child in their group of 8 friends, who since reception he hasn't got on with.
This boy will consistently laugh at DS's work, belittle him if he answers questions wrong, hit him and push him over 'playfully' etc. DS has come to write his invites tonight and said he doesn't want to invite this boy. He is absolutely adamant and not backing down.
He said he will ruin his birthday and he makes him uncomfortable. But my heart kind of breaks as he will know he is being excluded and it's not sitting right with me. DS has said if I invite him he would rather not have a party (already paid the deposit) And I don't know what to do.
I've never seen him so certain of a decision. But I also know how he and I would feel if the boot were on the other foot and it were him being excluded... something I've tried to explain to him but he keeps saying he doesn't care, he doesn't want him to to.
I get on with this boys mum pretty well too. She isnt a close friend, but we always stop and chat and we message off and on, she's really nice. I really don't think she thinks her son does anything wrong. Other parents definitely do see it as it's spoken about quite regularly.
Please help me decide what to do...

She is lovely so I know she won't turn on me, she will likely be devastated though which does make me feel a bad on her.

You really need to start valuing and respecting yourself and your DS, OP. The only ones who have given her cause to be devastated are her son, through the consequences of his terrible behaviour, and herself, through her neglectful parenting.

Stop apologising and feeling like you (or your DS) are somehow to blame for other people's toxic and nasty decisions. She clearly doesn't feel devastated enough for all that her child has put yours through to have done anything to stop it.

Ask yourself: if your DS had been waging a bullying campaign against another child, would you sit back and say "Woe is me" and do nothing; or would you step right in and actually parent your child to strongly disabuse him of the notion that bullying people is just fine? This has been happening for years, and she hasn't cared in all that time to do anything about it to protect your DS.

@Louisa80s
Havent rtft (sorry)
I'd want my son to have a party and I wouldnt force him to have that kid there.
Id also work with him or asserting himself.

I'd probably have a hard honest conversation with the mum and say the kids arent getting on right now. Her child has said some mean things its been going on a while (you understand it happens) and your DS is so immovable he would rather have no party than invite her son - which you know is incredibly hurtful to hear and you dont want him to feel excluded but equally you do want your son to have a party without having a child there who is unkind or ruins his day.

I had this when my DS was around that age as well. Honestly we left the boy out. He made my DS uncomfortable and we were spending enough to give my DS a fun party with kids he liked.
The next party DS was invited to the boy wasn't there. It's amazing when 1 parent stands up for their child others don't feel so bad leaving kid out who isn't that nice to their kid.
There was some "talk" in the background about why the boy wasn't there. I was asked by 1 parent where was X and I just said he wasn't invited and moved away I wasn't getting into the conversation at that time. The mother asked me why he wasn't invited and told her the boys don't get on(I had many conversations about what was going on and she deflected and blamed some of the other kids leading her DS and her child wouldn't do that) and my DS was old enough to decide who he invited.
Turns out this boy was bullying a number of the kids but because the parents had always invited the same kids to parties nobody wanted to leave him out.
Sometimes it just takes 1 person for parents to talk about what's actually going on..
3 of the group of 10 kids went to different secondary schools and don't even talk anymore.

I would reduce the size of the party as to not leave one child out, could he invite 5 or 6 of his absolute besties? At this age it’s normal not to invite really large groups anyway I thought

Your minimising your child's bullying. Have you spoken to the school about this because it sounds like consistent mental and physical bullying that needs to be stopped. I can't actually believe you're describing him being pushed over at 9 years old as 'playful'. Of course he doesn't want him at his birthday party, why on earth would he? Absolutely awful you are even considering inviting him. Grow a backbone FFS and support your son and for gods sake do something about the bullying situation at school. Bullying can really affect a child's mental health. Your poor son, he should be able to rely on his mum in situations like this.

I'm sure there are some women out there who would genuinely feel they should apologise to an abuser who is raining down punches on them for potentially hurting his fists by putting their face there.

Exactly this. It explains why so many women are willing to stay in abusive relationships or situations in personal or work settings as well. It actually boils down to a fear of confrontation and possibly very low self-esteem/fawning response rather than genuinely wanting to be kind to someone. It's always much easier to be nice to everyone (even at the risk of upsetting your own child) than risk rocking the boat or becoming a social target of another mum's gossip.

When ultimately, it's just an issue of saying "fuck it" and doing what you know is best for your family and having the backbone to deal with consequences. It's definitely possible that the son won't be invited back to another party, but what difference would that make in the bigger picture. In a few years they're all teens and have entirely different social lives. Virtually no man is going to be hanging out with the same group of friends he had when he was 8.

I support you doing what your DS wants here. You'll have to brace yourself for the fall out, which might include some very awkward encounters with the other mum and maybe even parents of the other children in the group, but that boy is a bully and your son is putting in place a boundary (which is brave!).

I wouldn't even care, to be honest. If I, as a parent, need to do something to keep my child happy and safe, I'm not going to hold back for fear of a bit of social awkwardness that might result amongst other people who also struggle with respecting boundaries and valuing others.

Why on earth should nice, kind children have to miss out purely to spare a bully's feelings? You're helping the bully along with his bullying there, if you do that.

It's definitely possible that the son won't be invited back to another party

I don't actually understand OP and other PP's concerns that excluding the bully from the party could result in her DS not being invited back to the bully's parties, or those of his sympathisers. Why would you want to go anyway? Definitely a case of needing to value yourself and remembering that your feelings and happiness matter.

Agree Antique yet another insane example of this bending over backwards to
placate the badly behaved. This “inclusion” mindset has gone too far and turned some into absolute wet blankets who can’t even prioritise their own child on his sodding birthday!

i hate a kid being left out but on this occasion I’d listen to your son and not invite this boy. If your DS has a crap time because of him its not really fair.

You could talk to the mum, but you may not get a great reception from her - she’ll be defensive re her son (don’t do it on WhatsApp). Been there, done that.

i can see the issue with the wider group, how do they feel about this other boy?

My adult DD had a bday party last year ruined by someone who DD felt she had to invite - the person got really drunk, insulted someone else’s boyfriend, talked people to fuck off. DD hasn’t spoken to them since (luckily they now live in different cities post-uni but were once flatmates). There are limits to ‘being kind’.

I do hear you and your concern about leaving the bully boy out and I do commend you for illustrating to your son about excluding someone, how would they feel

however, the message is also being sent that your own son’s feelings, sense of self, are not of importance compared to this boy. The conflict is not being addressed but avoided.

you need to change this. Your son is as important as this bully. That is the message you also need to instill.

someone else raised the question - what is being done to address the bullying behaviour. Start this now if you have not done so already. You ask the teacher to ensure this is addressed in school. Bully’s parents need to be told. Specific instances given to them. Be forthcoming and tell the teacher also about your issue with the birthday party and how you don’t want there to be an issue with this boy because of this kid is bullying now and nothing has happened, he may bully more after the party.

because your child deserves his birthday party and he should not be curved to include a bully. I’d agree about including a shy child, a child who may be awkward etc so they don’t feel left out. But I would not force my child to include their bully.

Honestly, I think the party is the least of your problems. The school needs to stop the regular bullying.
I think you are absolutely doing the right thing by telling the mum why you are not inviting her son.

Fair enough. But I gave it as an example - my son had been bullied by the boy and didn’t want him at his (small) party, but there were consequences to that. OP’s child has to appreciate there will be consequences, is all I’m saying.

Your son has made his decision, how is overruling him any use? Would you want to be constantly berated by someone and then be forced to spend your own birthday celebration with that person?
Stop trying to be Mrs Nice all the time and respect your sons decision.

Your child must come first. He has perfectly valid reasons for not inviting a child who is consistently nasty to him. Your heart should kind of break for your lack of confidence bullied child, not his feral classmate. Honestly, your son has more guts and emotional intelligence than you do. Why are you more concerned about a deeply unpleasant child who seems to lack a mother with any backbone to stamp out this behaviour? Why should this not be his first lesson that if you are a nasty bully then people don't want to spend time with you?

I couldn’t exclude one child from the group. Ask your child how they would feel if everyone was invited to a party except him.

I have only ever had android phones, and I never used the app anymore, as it is quite useless really. So I just Google Mumsnet, and enter the site through there. It hardly takes any longer, and I can do everything I want on Mumsnet, including voting.

I think my hesitation is because MN like a ‘bully / victim’ scenario and in friendships it can often be more complex and more nuanced than this.

I’m not saying I think the OPs ds isn’t being truthful, just that others in the group may give different accounts and interpretations as to what’s been happening and these may not be totally accurate either.

I would invite who DS wants.

Why has this not been dealt with by the school? Also why is this child tolerated in the friendship group - which is quite big. Most dc reduce friends to a few close ones by 9 and drop the unacceptable hangers on. Maybe your DS is now making a stand? Invite who he wants. Talk to school about bullying.

I totally agree

Include friends

Exclude bullies

I agree with this…. I think we should teach our kids that often children can be a bit unkind because they are not very happy or have behaviour problems . I had similar scenario when my child was that age but we invited the child in question who later was diagnosed with adhd.The mother was devastated that he wasn’t invited to other parties and was grateful that we invited her son.

He doesn’t have to invite the boy who bullies.

You have 9 invites to decide, because 3 are your own kids. Maybe your son could invite 3 more boys, his best friends from the large tight knit group, and 6 girls from the class or 6 kids not from school but cousins/ neighbours/ kids from one of his sports or clubs? This would dilute the whole problematic dynamic and get rid of the problem of one kid being excluded.

Also definitely make sure school take the bullying seriously.

OP says it’s been noted by other parents. Why is it bullying behaviour for DS not to want to invite someone to his birthday party who intimidates and belittles him ? The boy may be part of the wider friendship group but it’s entirely understandable for DS not to want him there if they don’t get along and he feels as though the boy will ruin things.